By Antonio D. French
Filed Thursday, February 07, 2008 at 11:02 PM
The brother of Charles Lee "Cookie" Thornton, who allegedly walked into the Kirkwood city hall today and shot seven people, including the mayor, two city council people, and two police officers, told Channel 4 News tonight that he is "okay" with what his brother did. Labels: Crime
"Let me put it in a context that you might understand," Gerald Thornton told the reporter. "My brother went to war tonight with the people that were of the government that was putting torment and strife into his life."
69 Comments:
The tragedy was very bad, and I am praying for the victims and relatives. However, I am disgusted at the way Laurie Waters took the brothers word and expanded them into an action influenced by a lot of people.
She also twisted the meaning of his words as if he agreed with his brother's action.
To see that happen live was scary. It just shows that whites and blacks cannot communicate and understand one another. Which is probably the undertone of what led to this tragic event.
2/07/2008 11:12 PM
did this have anything to do with Johnson death sentence last week? I can't believe it's just a coincidence.
2/07/2008 11:20 PM
"Welcome to Kirkwood. Pay no attention to that group of people that we constantly ignore."
It doesn't help if you call everyone at city hall a bunch of jackasses. Let the press do that.
But Kirkwood's response to procecuting Kevin Johnson but letting Michael Devlin go for five years (a man who probably delivered pizza to the police department until he was caught), and then letting this problem boil over like it was something to blow off was IRRESPONSIBLE! The Reno 911 cops could do a better job than the Kirkwood police.
What Thornton did was wrong, but how Kirkwood treats their government affairs , especially with the residents of Mecham Park) was a ticking time bomb or better yet a meth lab that was waiting to explode. When bad decisions are made, everyone is likely to suffer.
2/07/2008 11:59 PM
"He went to war." Yeah, with sanity. And he lost. We all lost.
His brother is misguided by shock, anger and grief.
2/08/2008 12:46 AM
Pray together for all the losses this community has suffered. My dear friend Councilwoman Connie Carr will be deeply missed .This is sadly another Tragic event Kirkwood has suffered and I pray leadership steps forward and can unite this saddened community..
2/08/2008 12:48 AM
This post was in bad test Mr. French. I enjoy your blog and I read it often but this post just wasn't what I wanted to see or read. I think his comment was turned around and like other media outlets have turned it around as well. The events that took place are tragic and I think you could have posted something else other than this. This is just my opinion and you don't even have to post this but I thought I would tell you what I was thinking. I get were you were trying to go with this and admire your take on the news but something abou this one just got under my sking not sure if it's just so new that I'm bothered by it or is that it is really bad taste. That is not for me to judge but only my opinion.
2/08/2008 6:26 AM
by checking "cookies" court records it seems that he was also being tormented by various landlords and suppliers for non-payment. The missouri dept of unemployment tormented him as well for his questionable dealings with them. Yep--cookie was a victim
2/08/2008 7:31 AM
this whole thing reminds me of a quote, "Liberals didn't create gun free zones. They created signs that say gun free zones."
2/08/2008 7:39 AM
several hundred thousand dollars of outstanding civil judgements against Cookie was probalby a bit tormenting too!
2/08/2008 7:39 AM
It just shows that whites and blacks cannot communicate and understand one another. Which is probably the undertone of what led to this tragic event.
What an overgeneralization. You just took one action of violence by a person whose mental stability was clearly questionable and extrapolated that to an untenable premise.
And if Thornton's brother said he was "okay" with what his brother did, as opposed to being outraged and appalled, he did condone last night's actions. He should be ashamed of himself for those comments.
2/08/2008 7:40 AM
The brother "Gerald" (of the same Attucks address) 1st degree murder charge was pled down to voluntary manslaughter......I guess someone tormented him too!
re: http://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/charges.do
2/08/2008 7:47 AM
From the Post:
Thornton wasn't going to back down — not when the city was telling him that he was working without the proper permits, or parking his truck and construction equipment in the wrong places
He claimed he had incurred more than 150 citations, costing him thousands of dollars in fines for violations such as performing work without a city permit and improper parking, according to the Times.
Anne Bell Thornton called what had happened terrible, but said her son was provoked by the city.
"No one should kill," she said. "But people shouldn't drive people to kill."
So, if I don't like the objective standards you're holding me and the rest of the citizenry of Kirkwood to, you've driven me to kill? What kind of tormented and twisted logic is that? Hearing his brother and mother justify this action really troubles me.
2/08/2008 7:48 AM
of course Cookie's brother is ok with last night. He is a killer too. Of course his is out of prison now. We wouldn't want to violate his civil rights.
2/08/2008 7:50 AM
every other paving company that I know of, dozens at least, set up shop in areas that will not be adversly affected by to junkie looking equipment that is the nature of their business
2/08/2008 7:55 AM
Read an opinion piece about the shooting and the racism in Kirkwood here: http://wikilou.com/wiki/index.php?title=Opinion:_Kirkwood_racism_boils_over_into_violence
2/08/2008 9:27 AM
http://wikilou.com/wiki/index.php?title=Opinion:_Kirkwo
I went there, and it says there is currently no text on this page.
It appears the family of the suspect has a problem with law and violence.
2/08/2008 9:36 AM
I went to the "opinion" link, and it is obviously an opinion.
Mr. Thornton is being portrayed as a piller of the community, while this may be the writers "opinion", many creditors may ask what are the perameters that this train of thought is based on. They would most likley wonder if being donned as a great citizen, if maybe a certain level of personal responsibilty is needed.
Just because it is written as someone's biased opinion doesn't make it true.
2/08/2008 9:40 AM
The comments in the "opinion" piece that Thornton was "silenced" from speaking at Kirkwood city council meetings are incomplete. Thornton had ample opportunity to speak effectively and state salient points in meetings. It was only when he resorted to unconstructive, personal attacks on city council members that he was curtailed.
A level of decorum must be maintained at civic meetings; allowing any member of the public to ramble at length about inane issues does not help the governing body achieve its goals. Read the article in this blog that quotes Judge Perry's opinion for a legal discussion of this issue.
2/08/2008 9:46 AM
This wasn't a war - it was a slaughter.
2/08/2008 9:47 AM
The rules Kirkwood has about parking are for everyone.
I violated them and I paid the fine. I really don't think that I was being targeted for being of Spanish desent, I think it had to do with me being illegally parked. I don't think that anyone of any desent should be excused.
I heard-AND- I don't know if it is fact or not- that Thornton's parking tickets were dismissed. If this is the case I want my fine reimbursed, or I will cry rascism because I had to pay the fine and he didn't.
I am appalled buy the suggestions that it is racist that he should be held accountable for his tickets, when it is not racist when I have to be accoutable for mine.
2/08/2008 9:53 AM
Police previously cited Charles Lee "Cookie" Thornton for parking vehicles for his construction company outside his home in Meacham Park. He was also handcuffed at city council meetings in May 2006. Thornton was charged with disorderly conduct and was released.[1][3] On June 1, 2006, the council considered resolutions to ban Thornton from attending or speaking at meetings. However, both were defeated; Swoboda stated then that, "We will act with integrity and continue to deal with him at these council proceedings. However we will not allow Mr. Thornton, or any other person, to disrupt these proceedings."[4] A federal judge in St. Louis, Missouri ruled on January 28, 2008 on a lawsuit by Thornton in which he claimed his free speech rights were violated by Kirkwood officials preventing him from speaking at meetings. The judge dismissed his claims, citing his convictions for disorderly conduct at the 2006 meetings and concluding, "Because Thornton does not have a First Amendment right to engage in irrelevant debate and to voice repetitive, personal, virulent attacks against Kirkwood and its city officials during the comment portion of a city council public hearing, his claim fails as a matter of law
2/08/2008 9:57 AM
I'm tired of the black-white issue. People use that as an excuse. I have plenty of friends that are not my race. People choose not to get along when it promotes their agenda. Both of these brothers are the tormentors of society, not the other way around. I suppose the brother will go out an kill somone else now and call it war too!
2/08/2008 10:05 AM
The post of 9:27 is very biased and not credible.
The post of 9:57 is from the link at the bottom of the page referenced in the 9:27 which seems to credible as it quotes the federal judge and has references
2/08/2008 10:06 AM
TRAGEDY YES...WAR IT WAS NOT
2/08/2008 10:06 AM
I read the link from the 9:27 post. If this is in anyway true
{He told his family "To God be the glory", and said that he loved them. He took two handguns and headed to City Hall. }
"assessory to murder" charges may be appropiate.
2/08/2008 10:11 AM
I commend Laurie Waters for shedding some light on an aspect of the crime that otherwise would not have received due attention. While her colleagues were all huddled near Kirkwood City Hall rehashing the same details, Ms. Waters ventured further and gave voice to the resentment that has been welling up in Meacham Park since its annexation by the City of Kirkwood.
2/08/2008 10:16 AM
If the Kirkwood parking ordinance is aimed at blacks only then they need to change the way they do business.
How does one know if a parked vehicle is owned by a black person?
2/08/2008 10:18 AM
He was tormented about some parking issues. OK, according to some of some people's consensus everything Cookie did was completely fine. What he did was admirable? So it wouldn't really be all that bad if I went and killed about 8 people at my local Best Buy, T-Mobile, or Ameren UE office, because if you look at my past history with these companies, they really put me through a lot of crap and didn't have my own best interest in mind. Go ahead all you "social commentators". Keep blurring that line that separates right from wrong.
2/08/2008 10:35 AM
to anonymous at 10:35
MEGA DITTOS
2/08/2008 10:39 AM
If you ask me, his actions were more akin to terrorism ("To God be the glory????) than to war. War involves armed soldiers and equals. Terrorism aims at unarmed and defenseless innocents. Perhaps it would have been more appropriate for him to tell his family "Allah akbar."
The Christian "God of glory" is also a God of love who hates murder.
2/08/2008 11:23 AM
For hundreds of years whites have beat,raped ,killed,enslaved,wrongfully imprisoned and discriminated against blacks and whitefolks get upset when they get a payback for their history of misdeeds!
2/08/2008 11:51 AM
I agree with the Laurie Waters comment. It was good reporting on her part. In fact, Channel 4 got lots of footage the other guys missed, including about a dozen geared-up police officers heading into Cookie's home. A sight to see.
2/08/2008 11:54 AM
As a former police officer I can say I did pick on guys I did not like. If I knew their plates were wrong they received a ticket everyday I saw them driving. If they had a warrant they went to jail every time. It may not have been correct but this does happen often. I can understand how someone became so frustrated. Dont mistake this explanation for an excuse. Killing is wrong! It doesnt matter if the State does it or an individual.
2/08/2008 12:07 PM
What happened is extremely unfortunate. What it proves is that race relations in this country are not where they need to be. Although it’s Black history month (incase anybody forgot) and a Black Man is most likely going to be the next president. Race is still an issue that we have not learned to deal with in this country or in St. Louis.
I hope that Kirkwood police officers don’t try and take out there frustrations on the residents of Meacham Park. I also hope the residents of Meacham Park don’t try to take out there frustrations on the police officers.
.
2/08/2008 12:19 PM
anonymous at 11:51. your right whites die these things to blacks, but don't forget that whites did this to whites too! blacks did it to whites and balcks are currently doing this to blacks in Africa.
So with your justification of payback, there would be no problem with the Kirkwood Police getting payback on the black males of Meachum Park
2/08/2008 12:21 PM
To anonymous 11:51, And for the past quarter century, blacks have been raping, beating, and killing blacks.
Where does it all end? Just because some of a particular race do something to some of another race doesn't make "all" guilty.
Just think of all the law-abiding blacks who are making progress. Just think of all the law-abiding whites who support blacks and are friends with blacks.
"Cookie" now stands before a genuinely colorblind Judge Who hates murder. Justice will prevail for him.
In the meantime, we who remain need to work together to reward the upright and to condemn the criminals, regardless of race.
History does not favor those given to violence--look at Caligula, Idi Amin, John Brown, Hitler, Pol Pot, Pancho Villa, etc.
Perhaps Meacham Park should become its own municipality and run itself like East St. Louis.
2/08/2008 12:53 PM
War?
Nah, just a cowardly act by a militant criminal.
Didn't take long for mama to blame somebody else, now did it? Sounds real familiar.
2/08/2008 1:06 PM
http://www.dipdive.com/
2/08/2008 3:15 PM
This comment has been removed by the author.
2/08/2008 4:25 PM
Why is it that anytime we have a discussion about race relations between blacks and whites, the mention of black on black violence becomes the centerpiece? We all know that the murder rates of young black males are sky high and have been that way since the mid 80’s.
I will admit that a previous poster’s comments about white’s historically killing blacks doesn’t justify what happened in Kirkwood. With that said how about we deal with the underlying issue of race relations.
I am from the south and have lived in St. Louis for a little over a decade now. St. Louis is the most racist & racially divided town I’ve been to. Most Blacks I know who are from here and left to go down south or anywhere else say the same thing (which is probably why they rarely come back).
As far as black on black violence goes there is more than meets the eye. Black men are not going around killing each other for fun. It may seem that way but that’s not what’s going on. The killings are going on because of a multi-billion dollar industry that has been flourishing in the black community for sometime now. If drugs were not on the streets then the killings would stop. If people stopped getting high then the drugs would stop coming in. If we enforced our immigration laws the drugs would not be so available. If we went to the source (Central & South America) then we could win this “War on Drugs” and make our streets safer.
Didn’t mean to get off the topic but I just hate to see discussions about race turn to what black men are doing to each other.
Let’s not forget SIX people are dead and that is a tragedy.
2/08/2008 4:44 PM
Antonio, is there any connection between Mayor Slay and the killings? He seems to get blaimed for everything that happens in this region certainly someone can establish a link to this situation.
2/08/2008 5:04 PM
I only have the good memories of running Track & Field with Cookie back in the early 70’s. Cookie was a fun, happy guy back then. I still have in my archives someplace a photo I shot titled “Splashdown.” It was a picture of Cookie doing the long jump and the sand in the landing pit splashing upward into the air as he landed. Cookie was an accomplished long jumper and high jumper. He helped the KHS team go to State because of his talents.
Very sad. I am so sorry that Cookie ended up like this and sorrier still that he had to resort to taking other lives with him. I am sure Cookie felt life was unfair to him because he was a black man in a prejudiced middle-class white controlled neighborhood. But nothing justifies this kind of violence. (Strange aside… I am just finishing reading the autobiography of Malcolm X. This all eerily smacks of the same feelings). How far have we come?
SS
2/08/2008 6:48 PM
War is a conflict between two oe more ARMED parties... This was a slaughter.
Some of the individuals that he shot last night he had never seen before in his life.
DO NOT LOSE SIGHT, DO NOT BLUR THE LINE, DO NOT EXCUSE.
The man executed FIVE people. No struggle, no strife, no conflict justifies these actions.
Compared to "Cookie", the Rev. Dr. King had infinate more struggles in his life that he was forced to shoulder. He never once advocated violence on his behalf.
See it for what it is. Cookie was is a Killer. Do not lose sight, Do not blur the line, Make no excuse...
Fight for Responsiblity!
2/08/2008 9:21 PM
What happened cannot be excused. However No one was interested in Meacham Park until half of the neighborhood was demolished to build Wal Mart and the rest. Until then the neighborhood was as bad as any in St. Louis with run down buildings and streets you could barely pass because of the debris. As soon as some money could be made it was annexed and demolished.
Up to that point no one cared if you parked on a vacant lot or on top of a house.
Then the white establishment moved in to take over Meacham. Hence the resentment. I'm not saying there hasn't been improvements and investment for the half of the neighborhood left, but applying rules for neighborhoods of $700,000 homes does not make sense. It does make sense to cut a little slack to people who live and work in the neighborhood, change is a generational thing also.
I have a friend who told me that the city tried to work with Cookie, I'm sure that is true. However if there was 150 tickets as reported, or anything close it,it shows not only a pattern of harassment, but stupidity on part of Kirkwood government. The stress from that many tickets had to be enormous, but more than that it shows a lack of understanding on part of Kirkwood, no matter how many reports say they were trying to work with him, it was not really true, in fact how can anyone end up with $18,000 in fines? After a dozen tickets or so it should of been clear a problem existed.
I know the police and larger government can harass the hell out of someone if they so desire. I have been privy to those type of discussions.
What I am hearing on the news is that the act was uncalled for, and yes that is true, but unless the City of Kirkwood(and the media) understands and acknowledges their major role in this tragedy, it will only be repeated again.
2/08/2008 9:38 PM
It is my understanding that the citizens of Meacham Park voted to become a part of Kirkwood.
Isn't it time for some of the excuses for violence to end? Look at St. Louis City or East St. Louis. The propensity toward armed violence needs to be addressed as much as any special consideration that some feel codes, laws, and statutes should not apply to them.
Had this crime been committed by a white person, an Asian, or a Hispanic, these justifications or excuses would not be submitted.
2/08/2008 10:26 PM
"Had this crime been committed by a white person, an Asian, or a Hispanic, these justifications or excuses would not be submitted."
Agreed 100%. It wouldn't even be part of the conversation.
I love all the comments here and elsewhere that start: "This is a tragedy, BUT...", "I feel bad for the families, BUT...", "What happened cannot be excused. HOWEVER... (followed by four paragraphs of excuses)."
If you're going to blame the victims, just be a man about it and blame the victims.
2/08/2008 10:59 PM
Over 130 parking tickets. I wonder if those tickets were issued by one particular officer or a combination of 2 or more..let us not be mistaken..There are officers that love writing tickets. Why wasn't his vehicle towed..Hell if I have atleast 5 unpaid parking tickets worthed about 150 dollars there will be a boot hanging on my tire...These officers and city officials appeared to be attempting to break the brother down..well they did but they paid a hell of a price for it...
2/09/2008 12:17 AM
Well anony, whoever doesn't think this is a two way street doesn't get it. No excuses, but it takes two to tango. This is not some guy from North Dakota wandering in and doing this, there is a clear connection to governance.
In fact I would say it is the same governance that so many Americans are tired of on a national level and why the word change has such deep meaning beyond slogans.
But typically the local media sees no connection between what happened and the actions of the government, instead the media is a mouthpiece for government policy.
To blame the victims is absurd, idiotic comments like that are precisely why the reality of the situation is not understood and the deaths occurred.
2/09/2008 12:43 AM
Gmichaud: "No excuses, but it takes two to tango."
Nope, it only takes one guy to go nuts and start shooting people.
Gmichaud: "This is not some guy from North Dakota wandering in and doing this, there is a clear connection to governance."
There's also a clear biological connection to his crazy mom and his crazy brother (who also killed someone).
Gmichaud: "But typically the local media sees no connection between what happened and the actions of the government, instead the media is a mouthpiece for government policy."
Chaneling Doug Duckworth here.
"To blame the victims is absurd, idiotic comments like that are precisely why the reality of the situation is not understood and the deaths occurred."
Absolutely correct. Cookie needed mental health care, and it didn't happen in time.
2/09/2008 1:24 AM
Anyone who lives in this society needs mental health services, but hell, those who provide them are emotionally disturbed too.
This might be a result of integration. I sincerely believe that the deseg program afforded blacks and whites to learn each other's bad habits.
Think about it, the types of crimes and mass executions we see today being committed by blacks were once only committed by whites. Now black children are cursing out their parents and calling them by their first name.
White kids are running around with their pants saggin and rappin about stuff they personally have not lived through.
What we are witnessing is subliminal brainwashing due to socialized conditioning.
2/09/2008 8:14 AM
I took this from a Post article; those who know Franklin McCallie will not question the veracity of this statement. Tell me, does Thornton sound like a victim here:
Franklin McCallie, longtime former principal at Kirkwood High School, said he spoke often to Thornton several years ago in an effort to resolve his conflict with city hall. He said he considered Thornton a friend but admitted he didn’t understand his disagreement, noting that Kirkwood offered to cancel Thornton’s stack of parking tickets if he’d start obeying the ordinances.
"He said, ‘It’s a matter of principle to me.’ He wanted to sue for millions," McCallie said.
2/09/2008 9:00 AM
Cookie was clearly mentally unstable to do what he did, there is no excuse for what happened.
That being said it would be a huge mistake for government entities, not just Kirkwood, to ignore lessons on how they handle their policies.
It is totally absurd to write 150 tickets and $18,000 in fines against a guy who may not of even made $18,000 a year.
Meacham is a transition neighborhood, it is not like Cookie moved in and started parking his trucks on vacant lots and stacking building materials near his house, rather Kirkwood took over and told him he couldn't do it anymore. This is literally after decades of government ignoring this area.
Governments make the ordinances king, but at the same time some compassion and understanding needs to occur on the part of government officials. Writing 150 tickets is not the answer. Ordinances mindlessly applied on a continual basis is not the best approach in every circumstance. It certainly didn't work here. Although with Cookie dead I guess the trucks will be gone and the building materials cleaned up. So the ordinances won, but at what cost.
I could even envision a scenario where Cookie felt like he was part of the solution rather than feel so alienated. It probably would have taken bending the ordinances for the time being.
In any case 5 families lost loved ones, that is the sad result.
2/09/2008 10:22 AM
All attempts at sorry justification.
DO NOT LOSE SIGHT, DO NOT BLUR THE LINE, DO NOT EXCUSE.
All that should should be said is the MAN WAS A KILLER.
His "Struggle" with 150 arking tickets had nothing to do with half of the people he killed. Some of them, he had never met. You tell me, why were they party of this? Because they were white automatically makes them part of the establishment? Please...
DO NOT LOSE SIGHT, DO NOT BLUR THE LINE, DO NOT EXCUSE!
KILLER!
2/09/2008 10:49 AM
I'm always curious about what the majority of residents REALLY think in Meacham Park. I read an interesting article in the Post stating that many people feel intimidated to speak their minds in that neighborhood out of fear of looking like "Uncle Tom's."
I think the annexation of Meacham Park was handled very poorly; the demolition of a large portion of the neighborhood for the shopping center soon after set a bad tone for Kirkwood's annexation that still seems to resonate. Is it time perhaps for a discussion of Meacham Park becoming an independent city? I don't know the correct answer, and it doesn't involve me, but perhaps it is for the better. They would certainly have a strong tax base from the shopping center on S. Kirkwood Rd.
At the end of the day, we must learn to solve our problems without violence. Cookie's last lawsuit was ridiculous; you do not have the right under the 1st Amendment to scream obscenities at people. It is also coming out that he repeatedly threatened various Kirkwood officials and their families; he even was convicted of assaulting one of the men he later murdered.
Furthermore, we MUST note that many African Americans are speaking out strongly against Cookie's actions, and are not trying to sugarcoat his crimes as justified. Elliot Davis of Channel 2 is one such individual.
2/09/2008 12:08 PM
It's interesting to note that 1/3 of the crowd at the Meacham Park meeting yesterday was white, according to the Post. Look at the pictures of last night's vigil and how many of Kirkwood's 7% African American population showed up?
2/09/2008 12:22 PM
My reaction was to be glad there was outraged news coverage----but I compare the automatic outrage of this to what happened when Tim Bacon was murdered, and I kind of pause---and think---his was not a public spectacle, it was only one person killed, and while there was speculation about the motive being somehow related to the school controversy, it could have been any number of unrelated things.
Still---we need to consider how much we go backwards when we lose our capacity to feel shock and demand answers and explanations to violence. Otherwise---we are headed for the road being traveled in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, and pakistan, or any other number of places where five people being murdered causes the reaction "this is pretty much a normal day".
2/09/2008 12:37 PM
Kirkwood annexed Mecham Park because they wanted to remove the black residents. They didn't have the legal power to do this until they actually controlled the land. Citizens of Mecham Park voted for this because they believed things would get better. They didn't obviously as many were removed for shopping. Kirkwood simply wanted to remove the blacks and build a shopping center in order to capture sales tax revenue.
Thousands were displaced by the upper class white establishment. The historically black community, which dates to the 1900's, was destroyed. I imagine if Dogtown was bulldozed for similar reasons, by perhaps some other ethnic group, then the some of the more conservative Irish wouldn't sit idly by and allow it.
When government decides to destroy peoples lives don't be surprised if some of the victims take action.
2/09/2008 1:35 PM
Well I guess that's how the "Cookie" crumbles!
2/09/2008 1:43 PM
Remember, you are reading Doug Duckworth's interpretation of events, not always the facts.
His interpretations are always one-sided.
2/09/2008 2:16 PM
A racist coward ambushing unsuspecting people is not war.
2/09/2008 2:36 PM
I think we can see that racism isn't a white man's disease. It's apparent among blacks as well.
What can we learn from this tragic occurrence? Complying with laws, ordinances, statutes, and codes minimizes stress in life regardless of race.
Perhaps such ordinances and codes need to be held to a minimum, but until that changes we are all "under the law." Go to African nations, and you will find restrictive laws and codes.
The loss of innocent lives is never justified, whether those lives be black, white, Native American,or Asian.
We are all flawed human beings. Let's recognize it in our respective races and stop pointing the fingers at others.
Murder is a heinous crime--no justification whatsover!
I just learned the 80-year old black woman killed by a random gun shooting is the mother of a friend and former colleague of mine. How sad!!!
2/09/2008 4:26 PM
anony 10:49 am, I believe we owe it to those who died to understand why this happened and what we could do different as a society, that is not justification, it is reasoning and using the brain you were created with.
America has higher violent crime rates than any other industrialized country. Something is being mishandled in America.
Attitudes like yours, in which you just want to assign blame and walk away is precisely why this problem exists.
No matter what happened with the writing of 150 tickets or anything else that occurred, it is valid to have a discussion about how things could be handled differently to prevent such a tragedy in the future.
Since St. Louis has and will have other transition neighborhoods similar to Meacham, this discussion is important.
The truth is we need to have discussions on all types of violent crime throughout society. We have to get a handle on all of the senseless murders that occur.
For instance there was the Post-Dispatch editor that was recently murdered. Should we handle the parole of prisoners differently? She was murdered by a recent parolee. It is a discussion.
Society has to make adjustments. Other countries successfully maintain low rates of violence, so this is not an impossible task.It is just a question of resolve on the part of the American people.
2/09/2008 9:06 PM
Why else would Kirkwood want the annexation? Do municipalities typically want to increase their number of minorities? Uh not really, especially when they are upper class whites. Dismiss their motivations and you ignore why this tragedy happened and how it could have been prevented.
2/09/2008 11:24 PM
America has higher violent crime rates than any other industrialized country. Something is being mishandled in America.
And less restrictive gun control laws than any other industrialized country. Mere correlation or is it causation?
2/10/2008 9:34 AM
Let's put it in perspective.
The brother claiming justification for Thornton's murderous acts is himself a convicted murderer.
Anything he has to say about excusing murder should rightfully be disregarded
2/10/2008 1:00 PM
fktzk"For hundreds of years whites have beat,raped ,killed,enslaved,wrongfully imprisoned and discriminated against blacks and whitefolks get upset when they get a payback for their history of misdeeds!"
Anon, that is racism at its core. Your idea that payback righfully goes to anyone of light skin color simply because of the color of their skin is exactly the part about racism that's ugly. It blames people for the color of their skin and not the character of their soul. Read some MLKing before you go spouting off.
2/10/2008 1:28 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with GMichauds' comments. Clearly how Cookie chose to deal with his situation was unworthy of praise or justification. However; every city can learn from this and practice more consideration in dealing with it's citizens. Meachum Park has been ignored and it's resident have been treated poorly. As one friend of Cookies' said, it was like he was family and he went out to kill other family members. If he was treated more like family rather than a nuisance maybe he would have been directed to some help for both his anguish and for his business.
2/11/2008 1:52 PM
What about the racially insensitive remarks made by JC Corcoron about UE Vice President Marks. He got two weeks off (vacation?) and may have inspired others to start picking employees off if they were upset about something as petty as missing a football game. UE's Vice President is far more articulate and intelligent than JC and should be given a lot more respect.
2/11/2008 2:19 PM
A man accumulates a bunch of parking tickets because he can't be bothered to park legally. Because the city doesn't excuse his lawlessness, he gets his gun and starts shooting people. So far what is described is not a racial problem, but the type of problem cities have all too often with the mentally imbalanced. In this case, the killer was black, but this type of killer can also be white or asian.
What makes it a racial issue are the comments of some posters that the city was at fault, or whites in general. That is a sad commentary on the racism of those posters.
2/12/2008 10:02 PM
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