By Antonio D. French
Filed Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:01 AM
On the "Collateral Damage" radio show Monday night, the hot topic was Mayor Francis Slay's handling of the fire department controversy.
Hosts DJ Wilson and Fred Hessel and guest Antonio French of PubDef.net discussed the appointment of the new fire chief, Dennis Jenkerson; the qualifications of public safety director Charles Bryson; and what "disrespect" has to do with this whole thing.
Labels: Antonio, Fire_Dept, Francis_Slay, Race, Radio, Recall
32 Comments:
How is it that having two separate firefighter unions, one primarily for black firefighters, and the other supposedly for all firefighters, builds racial harmony?
Is there pressure placed on black firefighters by other black firefighters to not join the AFL-CIO firefighter union?
Should we strive to see all firefighters belong to both unions? Or should we strive to see all firefighters in one union?
Does F.I.R.E. have any white members? Does the AFL-CIO firefighter union have any black members?
If there was a black fire chief, would he encourage white firefighters to join F.I.R.E.? Did Chief George do so? Or did he encourage the separation of black and white firefighters into separate unions?
Does Chief George have a record of improving racial harmony in the fire department? If so, what were some of his initiatives?
In a majority black city, what is the role of the black community to promote racial harmony?
11/20/2007 8:27 AM
They only want racial harmony when it benefits them.
The "Black Leaders" are the ones that want this animosity to continue. They see how much Jesse and Al have extorted from businesses and people to keep their big mouths out of the media and they want a piece of the pie too.
11/20/2007 8:36 AM
It is important to note that F.I.R.E. is not a labor union. It is a civil rights organization and it's purpose is to protect the rights of African American minorities on the Fire Department.
Local 73 is a labor organization under the umbrella of the AFL-CIO.
Local 73 is the state certified exclusive bargaining representative of all non-supervisory firefighters from the rank of captains on down as well as non-supervisory EMS employees.
While F.I.R.E., as a civil rights organization, limits it's membership to Afican Americans, Local 73, as an inclusive labor union has both white and African American members. The great majority of the union is white but African Americans are encouraged to join.
These are points of information stated to clear up some confusion.
11/20/2007 8:49 AM
Why do some people keep referring to F.I.R.E. as the "black firefighters' union" if this is indeed erroneous information?
There seems to be a great deal of confusion involved in this situation when it comes to understanding the "facts".
11/20/2007 8:54 AM
ok, i keep hearing all this talk about disrespect......in order to get respect, you have to GIVE respect
sherman george did NOT give respect
11/20/2007 9:10 AM
The recall effort should not write off the 23rd ward. Although it has a substantial number of the Mayor's power base [white folks that send their children to predominantly white religious schools], there are a fair number of people originally from places other than St. Louis. A number of them would probably sign the petition. Slay's support even among his power base is not that strong. People just saw him as the lesser of two bad choices in last election.
11/20/2007 9:18 AM
How do you reconcile the idea of "respect" as a deciding factor when perception of respect is blurred by one's own personal take on a situation?
Bringing the concept of "respect" into analyzing the Sherman George case seems to be giving in to a subjective perception of the difference between right and wrong.
Think OJ. The black community largely defends OJ while the white community largely believes OJ "did it".
Is the OJ case another example of whites not respecting blacks? What about Michael Vick and Barry Bonds?
There is a level of cultural solidarity among many black people which seems to rise above the facts involved with a situation. Or, blacks may be defended based on their traditionally disadvanted position.
Regardless, the entry of "respect" into the analysis seems to be a highly gray area.
11/20/2007 9:55 AM
So is Lewis Reed still aligned with Francis Slay? Had Shrewsbury won, this would have never happened. Listen to KWMU interview of Chief George.
11/20/2007 9:56 AM
Interesting observation. How would Shrewsbury have stopped Slay from disciplining George? Isn't the Board of Aldermen majority black right now? And didn't most aldermen, black and white, endorse Lewis Reed over Jim Shrewsbury?
11/20/2007 10:07 AM
Respect--
Did Sherman George respect the power of the office of mayor enough to do what the mayor wished?
Respect is a two way street. Slay, who the people entrusted with such power, twice, gave George more than enough time to make the promotions. George must not respect Slay very much. That is his choice, and choices have consequences.
11/20/2007 10:25 AM
"There is a level of cultural solidarity among many black people which seems to rise above the facts involved with a situation. Or, blacks may be defended based on their traditionally disadvanted position."
What if it is an African American that does not have your same view points, say a Clarence Thomas, Condalisa Rice, or Colin Powell. We have to get past looking at ones skin color. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. Regardless of the race, surroundings, etc.
Antonio, Have you ever spoken to white firefighters of the St. Louis Fire Department, or are you like Liz Brown, and you will carry the water for F.I.R.E. That is why you and the American are not respected.
11/20/2007 10:48 AM
Anonymous said...
Respect--
Did Sherman George respect the power of the office of mayor enough to do what the mayor wished?
Respect is a two way street. Slay, who the people entrusted with such power, twice, gave George more than enough time to make the promotions. George must not respect Slay very much. That is his choice, and choices have consequences.
I would not disagree, especially with "choices have consequences".
Mayor Slay made a conscious and legal decision to change the testing procedures many years ago. He made a conscious and legal effort to build up a school board which would go in the direction he thought best, and when the voters tore it down, he took conscious and legal actions to circumvent the actions of the voters.
Decisions, legal and illegal, do have consequences. You have to live with those consequences.
11/20/2007 11:30 AM
That damn Slay deserves no respect! He will be recalled!
11/20/2007 1:24 PM
^ They say brevity is the soul of it.
Unfortunately, being brief won't help much in answering the many questions raised in this discussion.
11/20/2007 1:37 PM
"The recall effort should not write off the 23rd ward. "
Don't forget Veronica O'Brien won in the 23 ward when Slay ran his second slate....dispite his bad mouthing her throughout the campaign. The little ole ladies still pulled through for Veronica.
11/20/2007 2:51 PM
The elected Mayor of St. Louis used the system like any other "white". I don't blame Francine for utilizing the thrust of his power. Negros need to understand the "THRUST". That's what I respect about Republicunts, " They know what they want". On the other hand, Demorats are clueless. There are outsiders watching closely. The city of St. Louis is still a ghost town after 5:00 PM. The scary whites who ran away from St. Louis only return for baseball, hockey and St. Patricks Day Parade. I'm involved in a group of African American investors with a $11.7 million portfolio. That's right!! We pooled our money and now we're diverssifying our growth. Stop fighting over crumbs! Don't let stupidity override intelligence. Stop wasting money and start thinking outside the box. Blacks don't have a chance to participate in the commerce industry in this backwards town. Who is going to support all these new businesses that were started with TIF's. Stop being a consumer!!!..Nat Turner
11/20/2007 4:20 PM
I like the way you refer to Slay as "Francine"!
11/20/2007 5:34 PM
i can't believe how racist white folks are in the stl. i'm white by the way. and- i'm not just talking about all the vile posts i read here. the leaders of stl are too. the proof is the media coverage of any racial situation. the bias is almost palpable. i've followed the fire chief situation in the american and the local paper. i think the post dispatch simply prints slay's press releases. the american shows real investigative reporting. i don't care which side of the issue you are on- if you only get your news from the post and local tv news- you are only getting one side. generally speaking- white folks need to get a clue. oh- and i wonder why there is a black union. maybe it's the same reason we have black colleges and black congressional caucuses. maybe white folks don't wanna share. what do you think?
11/20/2007 5:59 PM
That's exactly why FIRE was formed. 73 didn't want to share power with black firefighters and as a result of not being represented in the union and having to live and work as second class citizens in the firehouse they chose to opt out of 73 and formed their own organization.
11/20/2007 8:24 PM
It's a union. Whatever the union gets, benefits all members the same. What are you talking about-sharing power?
11/21/2007 6:15 AM
I am so happy that in a city with more african americans than white residents that the mayor was wise enough to hire someone from the lessor population to represent the now white minority in STL. YEP this is the new face of minority participation is STL
11/21/2007 7:04 AM
As a FF I am amazed at how many people have really screwed up the facts on this thing.
Sherman needed to go. Black or white he refused a lawful order.
St. Louis is not racist, just a small number of very loud people. One of them happens to have his own "newspaper". The post isn't very good but it is the best there is in St. Louis.
To the klan and the fire members (both racist orgs) shove it up your ass! F both of you. We need to get rid of the racists on both sides here. People didn't dislike Sherman because of his skin and likewise it is wrong that Rep. Niecy Williams hates Slay because of his skin color.
11/21/2007 7:04 AM
Blacks don't have a chance because most are sell outs. Most blacks attack each other. Example black leaders always attack black females. The never help them. If a white man tells them to go after Darlene Green then they do.
Forget all this unite black men junk. What about black people having a city meeting to work on their own problems before they take on City Hall.
Forget all the two faced preachers and do something for your whole race.
11/21/2007 8:55 AM
To the above,
Please do not talk poorly of "the preachers". Although there are many men of faith that do good work, it is the ones you speak of that keep the secretary of state employed by granting tax exempt stautus which in turn increases revenue for the local Lincoln and Jaguar dealers. This added revenue is good for the local economy. Are you not willing to pay a few more tax dollars to cover the revenue lost by these "snakes in the pulpit". Oh what the heck, shouldn't I be willing to pay over $6500.00 per year for real estate tax while the silk shirted preacher (without a church) next door rides for free?
11/21/2007 9:11 AM
It's a union. Whatever the union gets, benefits all members the same. What are you talking about-sharing power?
11/21/2007 6:15 AM
If you are in a union I would think that you would want to have a voice in what your union does. If there is a collective voice within the union and they have specific needs or concerns they would want those to be addressed. If your voice is ignored and you are paying your dues and attending meetings like every other member what are you to do? Black and other minority organizations are formed because their concerns are not addressed by the "traditional" organizations.
11/21/2007 11:01 AM
Unions negotiate for pay, benefits, and working conditions.
What union negotiated deal is better for white firefighters than black firefighters? None.
The union deal is the same for all of firefighters, regardless of their race.
Black firefighters ARE represented by the union, not because they are black, but because they are firefighters.
However, if you insist that the union is not representing the interests of black firefighters, please name one thing that black firefighters did not get from the union that they wanted. There must be something.
Do they want more than what the white firefighters are getting?
If so, more of what? Respect? Okay. Here we go again...
11/21/2007 1:22 PM
Once again people are not reading and comprehending. The comments were made in regards to why black firefighters opted out of 73 years ago. They were being treated as second class citizens in the fire dept. and the union did nothing to help. As a result black firefighters left the union and FIRE was formed. It's that simple.
11/21/2007 4:26 PM
Uh,no. All members of a union are equal. That's what it means. Union=unity.
One for all and all for one.
Still waiting to hear what the black firefighters are not getting from local 73 that white firefighers are.
Sorry (black protester) folks. We love you, but your points are ringing very hollow. Very.
11/21/2007 9:35 PM
Antonio French needs to mention the fact that there was a African American George Horne that was promoted from the rank of Captain to the Rank of Deputy Chief without taking a deputy chief test. This occured in the late 80's.
11/21/2007 10:56 PM
Anonymous 11/21/2007 9:35 PM
At what point did someone say Black FF's wanted more than White FF's as far as pay & benefits. Did I miss something?
Black FF's left 73 because they didn't have a voice in the union. At that time in this nation that was the norm for society to treat black people as such. Well those black men felt like they could do better than just continue to pay dues to an organization that would not help them with their working conditions. So those men formed FIRE to make their working conditions better.
Hopefully this will help you understand some of the history behind the split.
11/22/2007 9:51 AM
This has been a national issue.
Harry Trueman integrated the
Military the Army came around
first - the Navy last.
F.F. is urban areas across U.S.
have been slow to fully
integrate. That is part of
the reason that Sherman
George was widely admired and
respected he played by the rules
and made it to the top.
11/29/2007 2:22 PM
Okay President Truman.
11/29/2007 2:23 PM
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