By Antonio D. French
Filed Friday, September 14, 2007 at 9:36 PM
"Hey Hey, Ho Ho, Francis Slay must go!" That was the chant outside city hall today as the 5:00 deadline the mayor imposed on Fire Chief Sherman George came and went without George making any promotions.
Slay and his public safety director, Charles Bryson, said they will announce George's punishment on Monday.
Labels: Fire_Dept, Mayor, Race
33 Comments:
very very sad, the state of the city of St.Louis! Qualified should be the ONLy word used, but all I hear is RACE.Has there been problems of RACe in this country, state ,city...YES, but this issue is NOT about RACE, although the LOUD voices want you to think so!
If the NON qualified members of FIRE or local 73 are hired , the citizens of the City of St.Louis LOSE! The test takers are given the same questions on the test. If they (anyone) can't pass the test , you should move on and try something else... your NOT a Firefighter ! The group F.I.R.E. , as I understand, limits their membership to only black males. If this statement is not true, please tell me, if it is true, is THAT racist? I have been told that if I'am black I can not be a racist...is that true? Are only white folks racist? Do Courts Count when they make judgements against you and your ideas or do they only count when they rule in your behalf??
Sherman George, a good man? YES , a decend man. YES. A man that follows orders? Yes! The final word , maybe , I don't know the
answer, but if he cares about the Fire Service, which I think he does... NOW is the time to step forward and show his true colors ... are you a true Fire Service Leader or are you a true Black fire service leader. You know what the City of St.Louis Fire Dept. needs NOW , it needs leadershp. and after 2 or 3 years of lack of fire service and fire ground leadership it is time for change. Promote, then change the future test, if they are needed .
I have been a county FF since 1977 and there has been change since then. both in the county and city and the change has been good, involving more females, blacks and others of color the chance to be hired. Equal? I can't say , but if Equal means hire by population of an area, there would be NO balcks in Jefferson County or No women in St.Louis County. Believe me or not. I want the best qualified person next to me when the bell goes off , and over my past 31 years I have experienced good & not so good, but I have never met a
person, white or black that in their heart has not wanted what I want. "A Chance" .. A Chance to improve them selves, and their family, a chance to help their community be better, a chance to do the right thing when the time arrives.
Do I have all the answers, NO, are these words enough to right a wrong, NO, but when a leader, such as Chief George has been faced with hard choices in the past, he has done the right thing !
Chief George.. do the right thing this time again, promote, change the next test, if you and others think that it is needed and help heal the wounds. I know You... you are a man make the first step and help change the future for all the citizens of the City of St.Louis and of all the Men & women, Including ME, who are proud to recognize your leadershiop in the Fire Service and call you CHIEF!
GOD Bless Chief Sherman George and the men & women of the St.Louis Fire Department. GOD
Bless the Elected Officials the make tough decisions each day on our behalf!
In closing , Chief George should be Fire Chief till he is ready to retire, the promotions should be made for the fire department to move forward and F.I.R.E. and Local 73 should sit down and keep open lines of communications so THEIR fire department can move forward and continue to serve the citizens of the City of St.Louis!
Chief Sherman George.. I take honor in 'Saluting" you and your service as a honored member of the Fire Service!
From one "old" firefighter to another, Stay safe and may GOD keep you in the palm of his hand !
9/14/2007 11:34 PM
I agree with Chief George. We cannot judge a person's leadership capabilities on multiple choice testing only. The people that score the highest are not necessarily the best leaders nor are they best suited for the open chief positions. The role of " chief " is not for every firefighter. I think we owe it to Chief George, to trust his judgement (being that he has over 30 years experience)as it pertains to the necessary qualities of a chief. The role of a chief firefighter takes not only a mental capacity to understand the science of fire and how best to extingish it... but it also requires a person with the right set of psychological characteristics that a test cannot accurately access. In addition, a chief or any leader for that matter, requires a person to have the emotional intelligence to work in an enviornment, like the SLFD,in which racial tensions run high. Not everyone can do this job. It takes a person with unique and special qualities. A multiple choice test is not the way to choose such a leader.
9/15/2007 12:03 AM
Mayor Slay and Charles Bryson may terminate Fire Chief Sherman George on Monday. The methods of how to do so and strategy to manage the reaction from any protesters will be worked out over the weekend. In the end, Mayor Slay and Charles Bryson will win, and Mayor Slay will win again in 2009.
Why?
The reason is that this problem will not be important enough by 2009 for people to come out and vote against Mayor Slay. There is not a candidate that is capable of beating Mayor Slay in 2009. However, the 2009 victory will probably be the last time Mayor Slay will run, and he will probably take a judgeship after he is done with that term.
If Fire Chief Sherman George is terminated on Monday, then the firefighters from F.I.R.E. will return to work immediately. There are many black firefighters that are members of F.I.R.E., and not many of them were at this protest because they didn't want to lose their job. Make no mistake about it, the firefighters make good money and don't want to lose their job on behalf of Chief George.
Mayor Slay has the most gold and he makes the rules-THAT'S IT PERIOD! He does whatever the hell he wants and will continue doing whatever the hell he wants.
NOBODY CAN STOP SLAY, HE WILL DO WHATEVER THE HELL HE WANTS TO DO AND WHOEVER DOESN'T LIKE IT CAN GO STRAIGHT TO HELL!
9/15/2007 3:34 AM
I would like to go to hell, or do I live in Hell? Everything in this city is about race. F.I.R.E. was created because the white
firefighters union would not allow blacks into it when they first broke down the color barrier years ago, and where finally able to be hired.
Would the budget be strained if we were to bump up a whole bunch of generals? It seems the fire dept is doing a good job and the building division is keeping them in business by not inspecting city owned property. Charles Bryson should be fired for not reforming the board of public service as his first order of business.
9/15/2007 6:34 AM
People need to know what the format of the promotional examination was before they complain about its contents. It included an assessment component, not merely multiple choice questions.
9/15/2007 6:57 AM
Was the one of the top scores on the test obtained by an African- American?
How many spots are open and if the list were used what would be the racial breakdown?
9/15/2007 8:19 AM
I stand corrected..You are correct there is an assessment component within the test, however, the assessment compononet accounts for only a small portion of the total test score. Therefore, if a person passes the written multiple choice section then he/she will be given the assessment portion. But since the weighting of the multiple choice portion is so much higher than the multiple choice component, it really isn't used to determine if a person is qualified for the chief position. A high written test score is the determining factor. I find it troubling that Chief George reviewed several types of tests by several companies and of all those tests (I believe the number was greater than 10) Chief George would have been satisfied with all but 2 tests. After giving this recommendation to his boss, the Mayor and the Public Safety director chose one of the only 2 tests that George did not endorse. Why is that?
9/15/2007 10:10 AM
Have our great city leaders Lewis Reed and Darlene Green addressed this issue? Where's the leadership?
9/15/2007 11:30 AM
3:34 am, you are wrong. This one issue may not draw enough votes to oust Slay, but combined with those who want him out over the school issues and the Forest Park issues, and who knows what else, all those smaller factions together are getting pretty big. I live in white south St. Louis, what Slay would consider his base, and most people I know will vote against him if he runs again. I don't know if he knows how his tactics are being perceived among those he considers his safe votes, but he better start caring about it. I think it's too late for most of us to change our minds, though. There are fewer rich people in town than there are poor and middle class. He can get his rich friend votes, but if the rest of us stick together at the ballot box it won't matter. Ask Darnetta Clinkscale or James Buford about that.
9/15/2007 11:35 AM
Because Chief George doesn't give the tests. Personnel doesn't have to give the test he requests because that is how St. Louis City is run. Look at what just happened with the test he recommended for entry level firefighters... test was thrown out. Nice job Chief.
To anonymous @ 12:03... so do you think it was a trick or luck that a black man scored #1 on the Battalion Chief test? The top 6 has 2 black men, 2 white men, 1 white female and a hispanic? I'm not an expert on diversity, but that seems pretty diverse to me. A white female has never made it to that rank in this fire department and I don't think a hispanic has either.
And aren't most of the testing that high schoolers go through to graduate and standardize testing to determine the choices of colleges they can attend, those are mostly multiple choice aren't they?
Speaking of that, F.I.R.E. and George complain about having multiple choice questions, but more than half of the questions asked on that test which George recommended for newly hired firefighters was multiple choice. Not to mention that many of the north side residents came to take the test and were unable to add or do simple math. FACT.
Also, as a I keep bringing up in other posts... Ask around, do you think Chief George was #1 on any of these promotional lists to go to Captain, Battalion Chief, Deputy Chief and to become Chief?? Ill give you a hint.... It's not yes. Many of his titles were given through court preceedings, not by knowledge or skill, or as you speak of... character.
9/15/2007 11:36 AM
Mayor Slay might be better off devoting his political energy to getting Governor Blunt re-elected in 2008.
If he fails to be re-elected in 2009---he would have in place the same plan B that he used when his school board members were discarded.
Simply have the city of St. Louis taken over by the state, and have Governor Blunt appoint him as ceo of the city.
9/15/2007 12:00 PM
Alan Keyes has entered the potus race.
What if.....never mind.
9/15/2007 1:51 PM
Oracle, this is the mayor's issue, not theirs.
But since you asked, try reading the American.
9/15/2007 4:02 PM
Reed and Green are both potential candidates for mayor (though probably not in the same year). It would be helpful to know how they would handle a situation the current mayor is handling in real life.
And why should I read the American, who journalistic standards fall far short of pubdef's?
9/15/2007 8:52 PM
To 11:36am... I don't think the ACT/SAT and the test for fire chief are fair comparisons. When a student takes the ACT/SAT he/she will go to college and receive an education that will hopefully prepare that student for a career. The fire chief test is testing that persons skills to do the job today. It's not a test to enter 5 more years of school in order to prepare you for the job. You must be prepared for the position and earn it before the title is awarded to you.
Please don't make assumptions about who passed those tests and who's in line for a promotion. The information presented is false. Again your statement regarding the entrance exam... not a fair comparision for a leadership postion as a chief. When accepted into the fire academy the students receive training and education to prepare them for the job. Not all those that enter the academy complete the required coursework. Many decide that after a few weeks of training, the job isn't for them and they choose to leave. I'll say it again, the chief position is of extreme importance of which the selection of those individuals is something that Chief George is taking very seriously. Unlike his bosses.
9/16/2007 6:13 PM
How did Wayne Luster do on the test?
9/16/2007 11:00 PM
Ant reporter bother to ask him how he did on the test?
9/16/2007 11:01 PM
Is Chief George a member of FIRE?
9/17/2007 8:30 AM
PM Update:
Still wondering...does anyone know: is Sherman George a member of FIRE? That is the word being put on the street by some people on the Fire Department promotions list. Does anyone know the facts on this?
9/17/2007 2:13 PM
TO 6:13... The ACT/SAT is a fair comparison.
There are no assumptions about the promotional list. What I stated of the BC test is FACT.
For the entrance test, I know what the entrance test is, because it is the same exact test given all over the country. You can buy a replica on the test and already know how to answer the questions.
Don't tell me what the academy involved. It was as much of a joke as the county academy, you just ran more stairs. The city should hire those who already have firefighter certifications and EMT or a Medic license. That would cut this controversal testing and would assure that new firefighters last longer than their probationary period.... BUT, I guess you wouldn't like it because not enough of the "minorty" hold those certifications and would have an unfair ranking on a list. City firefighting is a serious deal and they need to have the best candidates and that could be best suited by having people with experience, certifications and an education. I don't want someone or people who were coached through the fire academy testing at an off-site facility in north city to protect me or work with me. Hiring people who dropped out of school and obtained a GED is not who I want to come to my rescue or drive my apparatus or send me water and keep the pressure constant.
Oh yeah, does the selection process involve hiring the best or the darkest?? Look at the recent hirings and you will have the answer.
That is why CFD shouldn't have any involvement on who is hired, fired, promoted, demoted. Sole responsibility should be from city hall until good decisions could be made from 1421 N. Jefferson.
George is a member of F.I.R.E. Just look at their website.
9/17/2007 2:17 PM
George is absolutely, 100 percent, for sure a member of FIRE -- he pays their dues annually. He denies being a member -- but records show that he does indeed pay dues.
9/17/2007 2:58 PM
Just curious, anonymous 2:58: How does someone who refers to FIRE as "they" (actually the possessive form "their") have access to FIRE's records to be able to assert that "records show that [George] does indeed pay dues"?
9/17/2007 3:30 PM
What is the web address for FIRE?
9/17/2007 4:26 PM
Here's the site:
Show me the evidence at this website that proves Chief George is a member of F.I.R.E.
Sorry, it's not there.
9/17/2007 5:06 PM
To 2:17pm. If you want to give all the information, let's do that. Honestly, no matter what your skin tone, if you are an existing city employee, you jump over everyone, to become a city firefighter. It's considered a transfer. So, if a person scores 100% on the entrance test but isn't currently a city employee, that person will be passed over so that the city employee with a score of 72% can transfer into the position. The only factor that will cause a person to have an advantage is the completion of an EMT certification. I will not respond to your statements regarding the type of firefighter, skin color, etc. I assume those are your emotions speaking. Let's put this Chief George as a member if FIRE question to rest. He is absolutely NOT a member of fire or local 73. As a chief of the fire department is is NOT allowed to join either union. Yes, FIRE is a union. As with any other union the "managers", "company people" cannot belong to the union. Any other statements made regarding Chief Goerge's membership in FIRE are false. Maybe he belonged to FIRE before he was a chief. I don't know. But, I do know, he's not with the union today.
9/17/2007 9:48 PM
George pays dues to FIRE annually. He has testified under oath at least once that he is not a member of FIRE -- but records show otherwise. You can argue with this statement until you are blue in the face -- but it is fact. You can also argue that George is competent -- he isn't. Everyone who is anyone in City government knows this to be fact. To argue otherwise is ludicrous. Sylvester Brown's articles and statements supporting the Chief on this site are ridiculous -- you are repeating things you think you know -- you don't. George is a good man -- a kind man. But he is 100 percent incompetent. This isn't even debateble.
9/17/2007 10:23 PM
Chief George is the best and most competent Fire Chief in the 150 year history of the SLFD!
9/18/2007 11:21 AM
Someone stated:
"The reason is that this problem will not be important enough by 2009 for people to come out and vote against Mayor Slay".
Whoever you are, you are certainly selling people short. Slay should be voted out no matter what he does concerning chief George.
Also, I pray that Blacks are not so deceived as to vote for that Republican turned Democrat, Chris Koster for Attorney General.
Don't follow the lead of Rep. Rodney Hubburd on this one, he's leading us all down the road to Hell supporting that man. That man is bad bad news, don't be decieved.
9/18/2007 1:59 PM
The first poster, I would guess is an African American fire fighter in St. Louis County who is feeling some heat and discomfort even in the County by the City's situation. There is racial tension in all fire departments that have Black fire fighters I would suppose.
My advice to you the first poster and all who are experiencing and sharing his feelings, STOP BEING COWARDS.
Things always get rough and ugly before a change for the better occurs.
But first take off your blinders and acknowledge that institutionalized racism are the reasons that chief Sherman George is going through what he is going through currently. The equality fight is not over.
The fight now is for these Whites such as Mayor Slay to:
1. Acknowledge that Blacks are capable of carrying out the duties of the job they have been appointed.
2. That Blacks can be trusted to make serious decisions.
3. Blacks will not be used and taken advantage of as only a body holding a title, but not performing the duties of their title.
But, then, the first poster appear to be one of those Blacks:
1. Just happy to have a job,
2. Just want to mind your
own business and be left alone.
3. You don't want or feel that
you need to cimb any ladders.
4. Just happy the way things
are, looking to make in unto
retirement.
5. You don't like to make waves
with White people.
6. You love to be approved by
White people.
7. It greatly deserves you when
you don't feel approval
from your White co-workers.
Boy, we would still be in the Jim Crow days if everyone had this attitude during the Civil Rights Movement.
But, the first poster and all like him have reaped all the benefits due to men and woman who were Black, White Jewish etc.. with the character and heart of chief George Sherman.
That is fine, but just shut up and stand on the side lines and look on, and stop giving cowardly advice.
9/18/2007 2:57 PM
I am dumbfounded.
I can't believe there are people as racist as the people on this blog.
To answer a few questions, white people do not look at black people as different or inferior. The ones that do are simpleton rednecks that are too stupid to hold jobs of any influence.
This is not a racial thing for the Mayor this is a professional thing. Why can't people understand that this is not a race issue and has anyone asked who would replace Sherman? Does color matter if the person is competant and a leader of ALL people?
This white vs. black stuff has got to stop. Neither side is to blame for either sides problems.
Everyone, get over yourselves and start working together. We all have to live together so we had better all get used to it.
9/18/2007 4:21 PM
Thank you 4:21pm. I was beginning to think there was no sanity left on this thread. I find it amazing that a situation like this could develop in the first place. Since when did it become possible for multiple choice tests that ask about, oh, say 3rd grade math, to be discriminatory? When did asking someone what 90 divided by 3 is make me racist? This is lunacy!
Teamwork people! As citizens, our goals should be to make our city a safe, prosperous place to live. That comes in part through promoting intelligent, honest, productive people to serve in the fire department and all of the other city services.
9/18/2007 7:15 PM
9/18/2007 7:15 PM,
So how are such tests then by your own admission qualified to judge a fire fighters competence to do the job or lead?
KMOV stated yesterday that they were going to place a copy of the test on www.kmov.com, but I did not find it there yesterday, nor today.
Maybe the city is pulling a KSDK (Mike Owens) on KMOV.
I don't know if it is as 9/18/2007 7:15 PM, states or not.
I am figuring that the actual viewing of the tests will prove how ridiculous this entire testing matter is. And how wrong it is to only use those tests to determine who have the opportunity to be promoted.
KMOV, we are waiting now for you to post those tests on-line at www.kmov.com as promised your viewers yesterday.
9/19/2007 1:45 PM
Such a test would judge competence by ensuring that when Firehouse A gets a call saying "Hey, we need another 90ft. of hose over here on street B." somebody knows how many hoses to bring. Not to mention, do you really want someone who can't divide 90 by 3 placed in any position of responsibility? I sure don't.
9/19/2007 7:54 PM
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