By Gabe Bullard
Filed Friday, September 28, 2007 at 6:50 AM
Earlier this week it was announced that the Centene Corporation will move its headquarters from downtown Clayton to two the coming Ballpark Village in downtown St. Louis. But not everyone is happy about the arrangement.
Centene has promised 1,200 new jobs downtown in the next five years. In return, the city and state must fork over $78 million in tax incentives.
One group that has always been opposed to taxpayer funding of the Ballpark Village is the Coalition Against Public Funding for Stadiums. They say the Ballpark Village is part of the stadium and should not be built with taxpayer funds.
Fred Lindecke of the Coalition visited PubDef's studio to talk about the issue.
Labels: Tax_Credits
24 Comments:
lindecke in nothing but a crusty, bitter old man. pretty pathetic
9/28/2007 8:23 AM
But he makes a good point. How much more can the city give in 'incentives' before spreading itself too thin? Let Centene buy it's own buildings, or let the Cardinals foot the bill.
9/28/2007 9:28 AM
Morons. Quit bitching.
If we stop luring business into the city then the whole region dies.
When we reach 2 million people in the city then we can let the market dictate but until then shut up. You idiots have no idea what you are talking about,
9/28/2007 10:24 AM
We'll never reach 2 million people if we only build housing and entertainment for the rich. There aren't that many people who can afford $300,000 or more houses, or even a night at the ballpark, with prices as they are.
9/28/2007 10:47 AM
Anonymous 10:24
I must be a moron to think that spending 65,000 a to bring a job to St. Louis is crazy.
My moronic thought proccesss tell me that it will very hard to recoup that 65,000 because the city will not recive any incom tax or property tax from the project.
9/28/2007 10:54 AM
Let these billionaires and multimillion dollar companies pay their own damn way!
9/28/2007 11:41 AM
Fools.
TIF money doesn't "cost" the city money. It is simply using the incremental taxes for a few years to help fund capital investment. I believe the long-term positive impact will be much greater than some foregone taxes.
9/28/2007 1:14 PM
The region dies when we fight internally for jobs. We need to compete with other regions not within our own borders.
9/28/2007 1:33 PM
cwe guy is absolutely right....amazing how many dumb people are on this blog
the city is letting centene keep a portion of the new taxes it creates to go back into the project
if the city does nothing they get
%100 percent of nothing
by doing this deal, they get an additional $5m a year out of this
that is $5m a year more for cops, streets, etc
which is the better deal? morons
9/28/2007 1:59 PM
What ever CWE + Anonymous
$50 million rased over 10 years is still as $23 million loss.
40% of the occupied building in St. Louis are TIF's right now.
What happens in 10 years when Centene picks another sucker city government to steal tax payer money from?
Another vacant building!
Another $23 million lost on some other coperation moving into town.
I didn't invent this game, but I have seen it played enough.
9/28/2007 3:51 PM
Right on Jason, while Centene is a welcome addition, the real question is why does America have to keep bribing wealthy businessmen? People supporting these give aways are also supporting the demise of capitalism and American democracy.
Where does all of this bribe money go? Very little is going into the project. It is not like they are going to charge anything but market rate (and probably above)rents or sales prices for condos. The truth is the money is going into a few pockets.
It is that simple. St. Louis may gain a big corporation for the time being, but as Jason points out the landscape is littered with failures that had the same big subsidies.
So what is wrong with capitalism? Is it a failed economic system? It must be.
9/28/2007 8:29 PM
I suspect we could have a lively debate on the topic without resorting to calling anyone a moron. I just don't see what that adds to one's argument.
9/28/2007 8:37 PM
cweguy and anon @ 1:59pm were right. This is not hard people. If Centene didn't come downtown, the city wouldn't get any new tax revenue. Now that Centene is coming downtown, we're simply not charging them much in the way of taxes to do business here. We have not given away anything that we would have had if Centene had not located downtown. It's kind of like the property tax abatement on much of the new residential development.
9/28/2007 9:14 PM
Those who understand economics are happy about Centene.
9/28/2007 9:28 PM
How about the fact that we are subsidizing BPV and this district could steal customers from other establishments which don't have a subsidy?
9/29/2007 11:59 AM
I think everyone is happy Centene decided to locate downtown. That is not the problem, the real question is the distortion of the free market system that occurs over and over with subsidies (essentially legal bribes or payoffs) that are given to these developers/corporations who relocate. I'm not even sure what the total subsidy is for the Ballpark Village at this point, it has to be at least 200 million dollars. That is probably half the cost of building the 1st phase.
The subsidies committed by the City this year might total close to one half a billion dollars.
Meanwhile there is no money for police, for bridges, for roads, for schools, you get the idea.
So what is the priority of society? To line the pockets of already filthy rich people?
I understand a company such as Centene has cities across the country to bid up the ante, as such it will be difficult for a solution to come from anywhere but Washington.
Nevertheless, it stands as a serious distortion of the economic values of a democratic and capitalistic society.
9/29/2007 4:10 PM
Hooray for Lindecke. Finally someone that makes sense.
Question: Did Slay or Rainford ever take a course in economics?
9/29/2007 4:23 PM
9/28/2007 9:28 PM
Yeah, those who understand Centene's economics!
9/29/2007 4:25 PM
Well, since Centene is getting incentives, ALL businesses in the city should get incentives ... right? It's only fair.
9/29/2007 4:26 PM
I think it's wonderful that many of you think the Centene arrangement is great. But don't come crying when the city needs more money for its police, fire, and other services.
And just think. Probably a good number of Centene workers will bring their lunch and drive back to the county or Illinois or the part of the city where they live immediately after work.
But if the city leaders and you think this is wonderful, so be it!
9/29/2007 5:12 PM
Guess what. If people and businesses aren't incented to locate in the city then there won't be any local economy to worry about. You can complain all you want about corporate tax incentives but it's how the game is played and this is how it works everywhere in this country. The United States is not going to see strong economic growth for a long time as there are far too many developing nations with cheap labor. In the meantime every city and region in this nation will fight to get the most of what it can. It's like dogs fighting for table scraps, but when the only other option is starvation(in this case economic starvation) it's what you have to do.
9/30/2007 11:44 AM
Well, I'll complain all I want.
Reform needs to start in Washington and in Jefferson City. If that will EVER happen, I don't know.
And you're right, the city is on the brink of economic starvation. Good luck on paying for your services and the so-called renaissance.
9/30/2007 12:38 PM
Centene will more than likely taken over by a larger corporation and move its location to the city of the takeover company!St. Louis will then be left holding the bag,damn that damn Slay!
9/30/2007 7:32 PM
Does anyone know where I can find out over the last ten years what TIFs were awarded and when they are due to expire?
The TIFs have to run out some time, and the city should start to see the coffers get the benefit of all the taxes, I just don't know when.
Someone in the city has a projection of property tax revenues that take into account the TIFs' expiration, I hope.
10/01/2007 2:07 PM
Post a Comment
<< Home