By Antonio D. French
Filed Saturday, August 11, 2007 at 7:49 AM
This 5-part video report comes from the UK's Sky One television network. Ross Kemp on Gangs is an award-winning documentary series that looks at gangs and gang members all across the world — including London, New Zealand, and Rio de Janeiro. For its second season, Ross Kemp came to "one of the most violent US cities," the City of St. Louis, Missouri. Labels: Crime, Joe_Mokwa, Media_Watch
Those people who still don't think that St. Louis is a violent place to live for tens of thousands of its law-abiding, peaceful, and productive residents... well, you don't know St. Louis. You don't know what terrorism really is. And you don't know why so many people are angry — at government, the police, and their seemingly blind neighbors.
"They don't care," says a crying mother in the second video. "It wasn't their kid that was killed."
Please watch these videos.
Look for a cameo from Alderman Sam Moore in video #1, a "Jamilah Nasheed for State Rep" yard sign in video #3, lots of mentions of my O'Fallon Park neighborhood and its "Associated Crips," an anti-gang program at Carnahan School ran by Kabir Mohammed, and a very disturbing interview with two Blood gang members in video #5.
Thanks to Doug Duckworth for calling our attention to this video.
46 Comments:
damn...
8/11/2007 10:20 AM
Thank you for posting these videos, as they highlight our most urgent issue for the community. What is sad to me aside from all of the death, is that a man fron the UK spends 2 weeks here and is amazed at how racism has divided this city. Until the issue of racism is addressed in St. Louis, we will always be at the bottom for future industry, education, and other things that make cities great.
Where are the stakeholders in this dialogue? I am tired of people blaming others for what is wrong. We as a community need to take a stand and reclaim our youth from this life. Poverty and racism are a dangerous mix, and what you see is a deadly toll it has exacted on our city.
Our teachers are fighting a losing battle in the classroom if this is what they have to face on a daily basis. I am not going to place blame on a mayor, a governor, superintendent, or even aldermen...This has been brewing for years. This is not a problem that cannot be solved, but we need leadership from those who can make a difference.
8/11/2007 10:26 AM
One of the big problems is that people live in their nice areas within the City and the suburbs and don't care. They think it isn't going on, or they think it's not their problem.
Some blame the community for its problems, ignoring the fact that political participation and community capacity to solve problems correlates with socioeconomic status. A one mile radius around Grand and West Florissant, there are 2519 Households making less than 30,000 a year. Grand and Natural Bridge there are 2000 Households making below 10,000 a year!
I ain't been up this early in a long time.
Turned on the TV this morning.
Had this shit on about...
...how we're living in a violent world.
Showed all these foreign places.
How foreigners live and all.
I started thinking, man.
Either they don't know...
...don't show...
...or don't care about what's going on in the 'hood.
They had all this foreign shit.
They didn't have shit on my brother, man.
8/11/2007 12:32 PM
you know, i keep telling myself that it's alright because it doesn't effect those people i care about. but this, like so many of our city's problems, really is too big to ignore
8/11/2007 12:52 PM
This should be the first video played at our new downtown "outdoor theater".
"I'll Take You There" and "Papa Was a Rolling Stone". Good tunes.
8/11/2007 1:26 PM
This is some f*cked up stuff. The criminals regard our police system as a joke. In their words, the police suck. I hope that our city's gang unit is larger than what was portrayed in the video. Also, if the city "knows" where the gangs are, why the hell aren't they swarming and flooding that area? Where are the elected officials? Scream bloody murder, protest the hell and DEMAND police protection. There is no way they would allow gangs like that in the CWE or downtown.
It must become a priority for the city to stop the gangs. The city could stop this type of activity if it was a priority. If it was a priority, there could be police on every corner. We as a community can't control the gang members actions, but we can put a police on every corner to make the area undesirable for gang activity.
Also, I felt bad for Robert's mother, but where was her ass when he was out producing a child at the age of 17? And where was her ass when he was making videotapes and gang gesturing? She was probably busy working her second job, I am not knocking that, but what I am knocking is that we can't scream that the system doesn't give a damn, if the community and us parents don't give a damn eiter. Accountability goes all the way around.
This video sickens me to the deepest pit of my stomach. It takes an outsider to show us St. Louisans what the hell really is going on right in our backyards.
I don't want to hear anything else about development, and another damn building being built until I hear about what is being done to protect the streets.
You heard the kids say, that there ARE opportunities here. Let us continue to provide (MORE) opportunities for the kids that want to do well, and for the ones that want to choke weed, raise pit bulls and sell pcp laced blunts, lets equip our police department with the necessary resources to tackle their asses and move them up and out of this city. Drug dealers go where the money is, where the business is. If St. Louis decides to make it "our" business to rid this gang activity, then they must go elsewhere.
8/11/2007 2:18 PM
One of the biggest problems with racism in St. Louis is that some think it is a one-way street. Threads on this blog show that the blacks are as bigoted and racist as the whites.
Doug Duckworth blames the people living in nice areas within the City and suburbs as not caring, but considering that people living in nice area within the City and suburbs are demonized as the enemy, it is natural for them no to care if people hating them kill each other off with reckless abandon.
The sad truth is that Blacks are killing Blacks, and Whites aren't making them do it.
Racism is prevalent in St. Louis, and has been prevalent for decades. The Whites don't like the Blacks, and the Blacks don't like the Whites. Unfortunately, both sides give the other side plenty of reason for hating each other.
Poverty was mentioned as an excuse, but there are plenty of poor people who don't commit crimes. That is not a reason for murder or for bigotry.
8/11/2007 4:36 PM
Threads on this blog show that the blacks are as bigoted and racist as the whites.
Ernest, who on this thread has darker skin color than you?
8/11/2007 6:26 PM
So, let me get this straight, when Ronald Reagan eliminated revenue sharing, which coincidentally happened to be the same time crack hit the streets, thus the police were underfunded, we can't blame him? Moreover, he said vote with your feet and leave the cities. That kind of antagonism and hatred for cities didn't compel the middle class to leave, thereby eroding social institutions, especially churches and schools, and also the tax base? The elites have a great responsibility for what is going on in the ghetto, through direct action as well as inaction.
They should be attacked.
8/11/2007 9:17 PM
Sorry Doug, but nothing Reagan or any other white person did forced Black men to become gang members and kill each other, any more than anything the Asians did excused the looting of Asian shops in the LA riots.
It is easier for you to attack white people in general rather than actually deal with the problem of blacks killing white.
One of the things I have noticed about Whites left St. Louis for safer areas where their children could get better education, they were condemned as abandoning the Blacks, but when they started to come back in small numbers, they were condemned for gentrification. The bottom line is that racists like you condemn write people, no matter what they do.
Not only condemned are the whites by racists like you, but also condemned are black families who had the intelligence, education, and funds to also move to safer communities. One term used is Oleos, as if not buying into the crime scene was abandoning black culture.
Such bigotry against anyone who cares about their children, and takes the effort to get a good education, and work toward a good job is hampering St. Louis.
As much as you may dislike it, people are responsible for their own actions. That goes for the gang members and for those who shield those members from criticism with arguments that it is all the White Man's fault.
Clearly, you hate those that fled the crime in one of the most dangerous cities in the USA to seek a better life for their children, but your hatred is part of the problem.
Things won't get better until both sides can work together, and that won't happen as long as racial hatred is so high on both sides.
8/11/2007 10:35 PM
Oleos? Oreos, perhaps?
8/11/2007 10:41 PM
Two corrections.
I wrote "blacks killing whites", when I meant to write "blacks killing blacks".
I wrote "Oleos" when I meant to write "Oreos"
8/11/2007 11:40 PM
Both the white and black middle classes left St. Louis for "better areas" while they should have fought to make the City a better place. They chose flight instead of fight, which is always easier. Ronald Reagan, and the economist Tiebout, promoted the idea that if you are not satisfied with government you should become disengaged and simply move elsewhere. In effect, applying the market to government. But what does this say about political participation? Simply leave and don't work for a better community. It is a lazy excuse to abandon your neighbor and community. The ultimate result is that those who cannot afford to leave are left behind without a job, because jobs relocated to the suburbs or China, and since they don't have a car while transit in the USA is horrible. And since it is the middle class that left the municipal government does not have the tax yield to do what needs to be done. And also Federal Aid was cut drastically. So we have a large amount of poor people with inadequate government advocacy and no jobs.
Thus, the choices are very limited and many chose to sell drugs and join gangs because it pays a lot more than working at McDonald's. The system is set up against those who reside in concentrated poverty meanwhile conservatives apply mainstream standards and judge them based upon their actions. Without taking into account the externalities of course these people will not meet your criteria. You assume that everyone has the capacity to ignore the world around them.
Where I grew up I had many more opportunities than those living in JVL, O'Fallon Park, or Gravois Park. To say that these disadvantaged are solely responsible for their actions when their choices are so vastly limited is both ignorant and dangerous. They didn't have great public schools, a huge market of jobs to chose from, or positive institutions working in the community for its betterment. You condemn these people without understanding the situation which created the prison which they reside in.
8/11/2007 11:52 PM
Doug,
Part of the problem is stated in the first two sentences of your reply "Both the white and black middle classes left St. Louis for 'better areas' while they SHOULD have fought to make the City a better place." (emphasis added).
The problem is that you assume that they SHOULD have stayed to fight to make the City a better place, as if they were OBLIGATED to stay.
Some of them left because of racist sentiment, but most left because the City of St. Louis failed them, and they owed their family more of an obligation than they owed to a city that was plagued with corruption and crime. St. Louis still has the crime but its government isn't as corrupt as it was in the later half of the twentieth century.
Would the City of St. Louis have been better off if they had stayed? Yes.
Did they own the City of St. Louis to stay? No way.
As for White Flight and Reagan, this shows how little you know of history. Most of White Flight was over by the end of the sixties, but Reagan didn't become president until 1981. By that time, the population had fallen from 856,796 in 1950 to 453,085 in 1980.
What caused St. Louis to lose so many people so fast? Mainly it was corruption, racist (by both Blacks and Whites), crime, and a breakdown in services that occurred long before Reagan ever took power.
As to your remark about there being limited choices, the vast majority of Black people are NOT members of gangs nor are they criminals. Many of the poor have more beliefs in morals than you do, and choose to live honest lives. Maybe you don't realize how racist your remark was.
But then, you are part of the problem.
8/12/2007 1:34 AM
Doug, you have to realize that Ernest is voicing the same ideology that comes out of most of white St. Louis, its elected officials, the police chief and the mayor: "BLACK PROBLEMS ARE BLACK PROBLEMS, WHITE PROBLEMS ARE THE CITY'S PROBLEM."
8/12/2007 9:35 AM
Ernest know not what he sounds like, the problem.
8/12/2007 12:07 PM
Where's Slay and Mokwa posting:
R I D U C U L O U S!
8/12/2007 12:36 PM
To the anonymous posting calling himself "Where's Slay and Mowka?",
Your comments are like those of Doug, based upon the type of racist divide that has condemned St. Louis to being a has-been city. Once the fourth largest city in the US, it is now 49th. It isn't even the largest city in Missouri any more.
The City's problems are not so much black problems versus white problems, as it is the problems of poverty, racism, and mismanagement.
The poverty in St. Louis is partly attributable to the fact that the racial divide in the City is so bitter. In my last visit to the area, I was amazed at how racist both sides were. The whites look down upon the blacks and the blacks blame the whites for all their problems.
Because of this racism, and because the schools aren't able to fully educate its children, and because of the level of crime, it is hard to attract businesses to the city, especially in areas hardest hit by poverty, and it is hard to keep the businesses that are already there. This increases the poverty, which fuels the racism.
Despite what Doug might think, businesses do not owe it to the city to move there or to stay there. Instead, the decision to move or stay is a business decision, based upon what is best for the continued existence of that business. When faced with racial tensions, high crime rate, and poorly educations workers, conditions are not favorable for keeping businesses within the city limits.
8/12/2007 2:52 PM
Ernest Schaal said... "As much as you may dislike it, people are responsible for their own actions."
Perhaps you admire the way the community took responsibility for the schools.
That small percentage who bothered to vote in school board elections noticed that the people chosen by their mayor were messing things up. There was a drastic drop in accreditation points, and many other problems including corruption, so instead of accepting the choices of the politicians, they chose people who would change these things. They were successful in 2006, and again in 2007. They now have a reasonably unified board, already taking steps to fix the problems.
One tiny hitch--a couple of white guys did not appreciate them taking that much responsibility, so they replaced the elected board, and those people who took the responsibility for making the changes are no longer allowed to vote for who runs their schools.
kjoe
8/12/2007 7:12 PM
Unfortunately, the changes were too little too late, sort of like a drunk driver promising to not touch another after plowing drunk into crowd of school children.
The announcement of the removal of accreditation occurred prior to the last election, so the last-minute conversion to reality was taken with a grain of salt.
8/12/2007 7:20 PM
Ernest, I grew up in north stl. Until you understand what its like having no education to get a job, having 2 children, a crackhead for a mom, dad in jail, and the babies are crying for milk and diapers. Until you fully understand this, you dont know the struggle your commenting on.
8/12/2007 8:22 PM
Ernest Schaal said...
Unfortunately, the changes were too little too late, sort of like a drunk driver promising to not touch another after plowing drunk into crowd of school children.
The announcement of the removal of accreditation occurred prior to the last election, so the last-minute conversion to reality was taken with a grain of salt.
None of the four people elected in 2006 and 2007 had anything to do with the loss of accreditation.
If you want to use a drunk driver analogy, then credit the people who voted, with removing 4 of the drunks of which you speak, and watching Slay tell the state "I promise I won't put another drunk behind the wheel". I don't like your analogy---but at least get it right.kj
8/12/2007 8:48 PM
kjoe, I have to respectfully disagree with you about a couple of white guys. Ron Jackson and Veronica O'Brien, as well as Darnetta Clinkscale were all involved and happy to see the district taken away from the locally elected board.
Ms. O'Brien did her best to make everyone look like fools to the rest of the state.
Fatt Nutts, the struggle is acknowldged, but there are people who have struggled as well who don't lie down and blame the wrong people for what is taking place. The black family is in trouble, and only black families can fix their homes for their children.
8/12/2007 8:51 PM
Mr. Fat Nutts,
Whose fault is it that you didn't get an education?
Who forced crack on your mother?
Who forced you father to commit crimes?
Most people aren't the loser that you claim to be, and that "most people" includes both Blacks and Whites.
As for having two children, it is funny that you link them in the same breath as crack addiction, criminal behavior, and unemployment. That says a lot about what you think about your kids. I love my children, I pity your children that they don't have the love of a caring parent.
8/12/2007 9:17 PM
KJoe,
The school district was taken away from the elected school district for the same reason that social workers take children away from irresponsible parents, for the good of the children.
8/12/2007 9:21 PM
gAnonymous said...
kjoe, I have to respectfully disagree with you about a couple of white guys. Ron Jackson and Veronica O'Brien, as well as Darnetta Clinkscale were all involved and happy to see the district taken away from the locally elected board.
kj--That is a good point---the most difficult for me to contend with on this subject, and I have thought a lot about it. Both sides of the argument have been reasonably well integrated---indeed, 3 white members of the board---Purdy, Downs and Wessling are aligned with 2 black members, Jones and Jackson, to form the current majority of which I spoke---and the white superintendent who was hired opposed the state takeover---which has turned out to be a board of one white person out of three.
Nevertheless---there are people who choose the members. Now---it is not the voters.
I have drug out an old slps subject, maybe inappropriately,---I want you to know that I did post a link to this thread on the sportslounge---here are some of the comments:
Very candid. You never to get to see this sort of perspective reported from our local media
This stuff is all to real. I deal with this every week. Just saving one young person every few months is a miracle. I work with an inner city gang ministry. Yes, I carry a 9MM, just in case something goes awry. Thankfully, I haven't had to use it. I'm familiar with the young man at the end of video #5.
Very interesting. Thanks joe.
That was riveting. Thanks KJoe.
8/12/2007 9:53 PM
Ernest,
No doubt you made a lot of money in litigation because you are very good at twisting arguments, but I wonder if you were able to bargain or win over a jury by using personal attacks?
I would suggest your read the works of Manning Marable or William J. Wilson. You might learn some empathy.
8/12/2007 11:06 PM
Issues of race, crime, drugs and gangs do not fit into the view of urbanists of life in the city. They know it is there, but do not address it because it does not effect those who look and think like them or that they come into contact for them and for them the city of St. Louis only exists in a few secured slices.
Their ideal of tackling this problem is verbally ignoring it while slowly removing all of the undesirables from their neighborhoods and sending the problem deeper into South City or into North County far from Latte land and if they get excited about anything maybe it will be buying a door from Home Depot in a historical preservation district and not the deaths of young black men.
8/12/2007 11:08 PM
Doug,
I find it amusing that you would recommend to others that they learn empathy, when your bigotry is so glaring. Your hatred is glaring, especially for parents, black or white, who care enough about their children to move where there are better schools.
I really think you need to do some serious soul searching to deal with your anger issues and your biases.
You really haven't explained WHY people OWE it to people who hate them to stay around simply in order to pay the bills of a mismanaged city.
Nor have you explained WHY businesses have a moral obligation to move into a city having high crime, poor schools, and racism.
8/12/2007 11:20 PM
Umar Lee,
I agree with you that issues of race, crime, drugs and gangs do not fit into the view of urbanists of life in the city.
One of the problems with dealing with those topics is that there are no easy solutions.
Look at race, for instance. Each side is quite willing to see the cinder in the other person's eye while ignoring the log in their own eye. Some Blacks simply want to blame the Whites for everything that goes wrong, and some Whites simply want the Blacks to go away.
One of the weaknesses of St. Louis is that it is not a diverse city. It is primarily a two-race town, with very few Hispanics or Asians or other cultures. Therefore, racial relations becomes very polar, with little regard for diversity.
This polarity leads to the trend to seek "solutions" by moving "removing all of the undesirables from their neighborhoods and sending the problem deeper into South City or into North County far from Latte land."
I wish that I could tell you a real solution to this problem, a way of getting the city to work together instead of working against each other. All I can do is tell you is that Doug's blame game is counterproductive.
Somehow, the city has got to learn to work together on this, but how to get that to happen is a mystery.
8/12/2007 11:53 PM
ernest
In one breath you say there is no moral obligation for anyone to do anything, and then in the next breath you say we have to get together and do something to fix things.
You are very good at citing reasons for not helping to make things better. Does it help you sleep better at night?
After listening to you it is no surprise that blacks hate us. For the benefit of all why don't you shut the hell up.
8/13/2007 6:06 AM
Previous post:
R I D I C U L O U S!
O U T R A G E O U S!
U N C A L L E D F O R!
I R R A T I O N A L!
S T O P S M E A N I N G F U L
D I S C U S S I O N!
8/13/2007 8:48 AM
People don't believe the police support those in the poor, crime-ridden areas. I have heard it said that the police are less than totally vigilant because they have a tough time getting convictions with serious jail time, so the police are pretty much wasting their time as well.
Is anyone in favor of longer sentences for violent crime? That can mean taking a father away from his kids, but also saving his next would-be victim. It would also mean that the perpetrator would get out some time, perhaps even more hardened than when he went in, but he would be older, and, maybe, wiser.
The DAs office is not exactly swimming in cash and plea bargaining is a cost-effective way to get convictions, but not make the streets safer from the bad guys.
I don't have an answer, taking bad guys off the street, for a long time, does have its advantages.
8/13/2007 9:21 AM
This thread lost the feeling of foward thinking discussion many posts ago. Those of us here, whom are willing to work together on these issues, are tired of rehashing past 'who's fault is it' arguements and are willing to take responsibility from this point foward. I'd prefer they don't type a thing unless it's productive, ie: involves some attempt at solutions to these problems. There must be some. To fall to 'past' arguments is lazy and unproductive.
8/13/2007 9:43 AM
not you papillion...
8/13/2007 9:47 AM
Anonymous at 6:06 AM
Your post is an example of the problem.
You state that "In one breath you say there is no moral obligation for anyone to do anything, and then in the next breath you say we have to get together and do something to fix things."
What I said is that people do not OWE it to people who hate them to stay around simply in order to pay the bills of a mismanaged city. On the other hand, St. Louis is to keep long hemorrhaging people and jobs as long as racism, crime, and poverty remain problems there. Racism, crime, and poverty are interlinked and has become too ingrained in your culture to be changed any time soon.
8/13/2007 3:05 PM
ernest, i'm glad you are adding to the discussion, you are the voice of reason and you're probably the only intelligent person on this thread!!
keep up the good fight!
8/13/2007 3:48 PM
^ Another caveman speaks!
8/13/2007 4:27 PM
To Anonymous at 4:27 PM
Thank you for proving my point.
8/13/2007 4:49 PM
Anonymous said...
^ Another caveman speaks!
8/13/2007 4:27 PM
how dare you make fun of womeone who said:
ernest, i'm glad you are adding to the discussion, you are the voice of reason and you're probably the only intelligent person on this thread!!
well----he did say probably----so maybe he has doubts that ernest is the only intelligent person on this thread. Maybe he was raised in a cave!
kjoe.
8/13/2007 6:32 PM
Kjoe,
Please explain to me how your message is NOT racist, or at least NOT bigoted.
If someone doesn't agree with you, they must be born in a cave? How is that NOT a bigoted comment?
8/13/2007 6:44 PM
My fault ernest, but it was not racist---it was just convoluted sarcasm.
1. poster says you are the voice of reason, probably the only intelligent person on this thread.
2. comment made that number 1 is a caveman.
3. ernest thanks number 2 for proving his point.
4. kjoe, facetiously chides number 2--how dare he,,,,then kjoe pretends that he just noticed the word "probably" meaning number 1 was not completely devoted to the idea that ernest is the voice of reason---therefore---he really was born in a cave, not because, as number 1 implied, that he agreed with ernest---but because he limited his agreement with the word probably.
Facetious is hard enough to do, without pretending to change your mind===facetiously.
8/13/2007 8:07 PM
ghe really was born in a cave, not because, as number 1 implied, that he agreed with
that should have read as number 2 implied
yikes---I'm drowning!
8/13/2007 8:12 PM
one last thing, ernest---I just noticed---you seem to think I was the one who made the caveman comment in the first place---that was someone else.kj
8/13/2007 8:15 PM
Okay,
I will accept you meant it as a bad joke. Don't quit your day job for a career in comedy.
Back on topic, I don't know what can be done about gang violence in St. Louis, but it sure looks like it thrives of racial hatred.
8/13/2007 8:31 PM
Hi, my Street name is BigJohn and i am from northside of St. Louis, when I seen this video and seen my hood was like wow, but this video for sure shows how it is here.
Thanks for showing our state and how the gangs are down here.
10/09/2007 1:05 PM
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