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28 Comments:
The state board of education says "just send your children back to the schools they would normally be at." The colleges and universities in the area say lack of accreditation "will make no difference to them". The transitional board hires the same superintendent to run the schools. The county school districts tell parents to "stick it out". What exactly was the purpose of this mess? Just to make every parent, student and teacher in SLPS feel bad?
Oh, that's right. To take control of district finances and decision- making power away from the elected board and the voters of St. Louis. That is the only thing they have done. No plan for the children, parents or improving education, just a plan to take control of money and power. Pretty obvious isn't it?
Did anyone else notice that before they got control, they were all screaming that the schools were "so horrible" and the children were "in peril" and "something HAS to be done" to "help" them? It was like "The building is on fire! The building is on fire!" But once they got control, now its like, "Never mind. Go on in."
There are school districts operating all over Missouri as accredited with less accreditation points than SLPS. They don't want you to notice that. Their "unaccredited" label is meaningless. Look at Wellston. If they want to, they can invent new accreditation categories out of thin air.
DON'T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS!
DO send the children back to SLPS schools. DO support the elected board's effort to overturn the unaccreditation. DO NOT believe this hype about accreditation. The St. Louis Schools are GREAT schools. SLPS does more to help the children of the city than ANYONE else EVERY DAY in ways that go WAY BEYOND MAP test scores.
Recent tragic events underscore the fact that the children's problems run very deep--deeper than ANY school, district or SAB can fix by itself. Their problems are ALL of SOCIETY'S problems. Instead of all this hating on SLPS, the state could have actually come up with ways to really help these children and their families and communities. They could have, if that's what they really WANTED to do. What they REALLY wanted is becoming more obvious every day.
7/13/2007 9:45 AM
I believe that this is Slay's plan,gentrification with ethnic elimination!
7/13/2007 12:49 PM
ariel, I agree with you in almost every way except one: "the St. Louis Schools are Great Schools"--because frankly, most SLPS schools are not great. By every objective standard we have to measure by (and I agree that the standards are flawed, btw) and for whatever reasons, most are abysmal. There are some good schools, but they're few and far between.
I say this as a parent within the system: I'm pleased with the education my kids are getting in the magnets, but I would never send them to our assigned "neighborhood" school. Not in a million years. Until every child in the City has a decent education statements like "our schools are Great!" serve only to mislead ourselves and make everyone else think we're idiots.
There's a lot to do, and I don't see a lot of means or will to accomplish anything, nor any accountability for failure or success.
7/13/2007 2:11 PM
Ariel,
St. Louis schools are "Great"? The kids can't read as well as the norm, and their math skills are dismal, but the St. Louis schools are "Great" because you say so?
I think you need a reality check. You may not like school testing, especially since your schools failed so badly, but don't shoot the message bearer because you don't like the message.
No matter how much you sugar-coat it, the tests show that there is a problem, and the school system is not yet up to solving that problem.
7/13/2007 4:01 PM
Ariel said...
"Did anyone else notice that before they got control, they were all screaming that the schools were "so horrible" and the children were "in peril" and "something HAS to be done" to "help" them? It was like "The building is on fire! The building is on fire!" But once they got control, now its like, "Never mind. Go on in."
Took a page right out of your playbook, huh...and now you are crying foul?
Look, I agree with you (how ever much that pains you) that the ills of society make teaching urban children most difficult. Why you feel that attacking 'no child left behind' is the route to the promised land of education. What are you doing to correct the societal problems that would prove your hypothesis? -and make your teaching job easier. Other than that it is all just words...
7/13/2007 8:29 PM
Antonio's original post asked, "Will the loss of the city school's accreditation lead to another wave of parents moving out of the city?"
At a recent neighborhood meeting that featured appraisers and real estate agents, I asked if they had noticed any changes to property demand or values since the flair-up with the schools, and all separately and unanimously said they had experienced no effect. But perhaps it is too soon to be noticed.
7/14/2007 12:20 AM
It is way too early to notice much of a change. After all, many appeared to be in denial that the district would actually lose accreditation, and some appear to be still in denial, as if complaining loudly enough would make the State change its mind.
7/14/2007 2:38 AM
No family that is buying in the city would consider the public school as a choice. These families also do not have to support the system because of tax abatement. The plan to drive out the black population will continue. Watch out for a large tax increase without any public input. The Public school will not go down without taking money from all St. Louis residents, remember the 4 non-profit corporations that started this policy.
7/14/2007 7:14 AM
Frankly, I consider claims that there is a plan to drive out the black population as downright racist. It is White-bashing of the worse sort.
If a white family moves out of the city they are portrayed as villains for abandoning the city ("white flight"). If a white family moves into the city they are portrayed as villains for causing "gentrification". Either way, the racists condemn the whites rather than doing anything constructive.
With an attitude like that, no wonder St. Louis is in decline.
7/14/2007 4:16 PM
Okay, how about if we combine all the schools within a 60 mile radius of St Louis, and draw straws on which kids go to which schools.
7/15/2007 10:28 AM
I have all for letting city students go to suburban schools, but the idea of forcing suburban students go to a failed school system seems counterproductive. Why force any kids to go to bad schools?
Remember it was the City that divorced itself from the County, not the other way around, and it is the City that has the really inadequate schools.
I hope the County schools reconsider and let the City kids transfer to their schools until the City can get their act together (if ever).
7/15/2007 3:40 PM
Ernest, the county schools really don't want the city students, though they might want the money that follows them.
They know many of the students come from dysfunctional environments and violent backgrounds. City students will lower their test scores as they have the city schools.
Why is there so much blindness to the fact that the failure is in the homes, not the schools? The schools just reflect what is going on in the homes and culture around them.
7/15/2007 5:31 PM
Last anonymous said: "Why is there so much blindness to the fact that the failure is in the homes, not the schools? The schools just reflect what is going on in the homes and culture around them."
Thank you.
I am HEARTSICK of the blindness. Yes, I said SLPS schools are GREAT schools, and I believe that the schools ARE great schools. I would stack up SLPS teachers, administrators and instructional programs against ANY schools in the area. And that's NOT just my opinion. It has already been shown in Dr. Bourisaw's report to the state board of education last year that SLPS gets better MAP scores out of African American and low income students than the county schools do. So even by the measure of test scores, SLPS has nothing to be ashamed of.
There is ONE reason SLPS students perform lower than "average" on the MAP and drop out of school at a higher than average rate: POVERTY. Poverty of parental support. Poverty of school resources. Poverty of social programs. Poverty of mental health services. Poverty of employment. Poverty of community will to help. Poverty of vision.
Put a school of SLPS students from a poor, crime-ridden neighborhood into a so-called "good county school" and you will quickly see just how GREAT SLPS was doing with what we had to work with in terms of both needs and resources.
What causes some schools to appear "horrible" is the quanitity of broken, abused, neglected, mentally disturbed, violent children who pour in the doors. The school didn't make them that way. The SLPS schools do EVERYTHING KNOWN TO MAN to change it, and the teachers add prayer too. People would be AMAZED at how much teachers do ON THEIR OWN to help these kids. I'll bet if you went to the schools the week before school starts, you'd find hundreds of teachers setting up their rooms with spare clothing, coats, shoes and food items WITH THEIR OWN MONEY. Because we KNOW the kids will come needing these things and won't even try to learn without them. Teachers who transport kids to school from shelters. Teachers who take kids into their own homes so moms can look for work. Teachers who come early to fix a little girl's hair before picture day when mother was oblivious. DON'T GIVE ME THAT WHAT ARE YOU DOING MESS TROUBLE!!!!!SLPS teachers are picking up the slack for the whole state of Missouri!
I blame No Child Left Behind because it CREATED the blindness. It created a climate of blame instead of help, and sold the American people a bill of goods that giving school districts over to corporate interests would solve the social problems of inner cities. It has become this administration's domestic policy for poverty and social programs. "No need to invest in the homes and communities. Just blame the schools and take them over. That will solve everything."
IT SOLVES NOTHING. IT IS A LIE.
Yes, education has the power to lift people out of poverty, but only if they are willing and able to be lifted. No school, district or teacher can open up a kid's head and pour knowledge into it. And children who live in constant stress and violence do not easily open their minds to learning. They are too busy trying to survive. If we REALLY don't want to leave children behind, we have to not "leave behind" the problems of their homes and communities. Anything less is just "playing school".
7/16/2007 10:08 AM
Although she and I part company on the topic of school choice, Ariel is quite right about the challenges she and other teachers face.
Here is an article in the Boston Globe that talks about physical effects of chronic stress. And there can be no disagreement that many of the kids in the SLPS are chronically stressed.
There is a great deal going on in our society that simply isn't being addressed. The assumptions that underlie mass education and therefore the NCLB metrics may be true enough on average, but the variance is quite high and the outliers are geographically concentrated. This I think is by design, whether or not aided by the force of law.
t
7/16/2007 1:12 PM
TL: Charles Jaco of Channel 2 did a segment this weekend about urban children having a form of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. He interviewed a number of psychologists and researchers who believe that thousands of St. Louis children may be suffering from PTSD due to the chronic stress and violence they live with. They recommended that this would require massive mental health intervention to address adequately. The segment should still be available on the Channel 2 website, myfoxstl.com.
If it could be definitively proven that urban children suffer from a recognized mental health disorder which impairs function and requires treatment, it could legally change the dynamics of how urban schools are funded, supported, structured and judged. At the very least the serious consideration of it by mental health professionals should cause people to rethink their assumptions about urban education.
7/17/2007 8:18 AM
Ariel, first you argue that it is not broke, don't fix it. Then you argue that is is broke and only you can fix it. Then you argue, lets fix it one student at a time. Then you argue that society needs to be fixed. Pick one battle.
Obviously you cannot expect to fix society as a whole from a classroom in St. Louis; and just as obviously, you cannot forget the one student that needs your help. So, where do you go from here.
And blaming 'No Child Left Behind' for creating societies ills is... well, naive. It would be much like others saying that the SLMPD is creating the high crime rates in St. Louis.
7/17/2007 10:36 AM
Trouble---if you want to criticize, or even quote Ariel, I think you need to get beyond the vagueness of just using the pronoun "it".
I was not much impressed with your comparison of slmpd--real human beings---to "no child left behind"---an abstract policy from Bush and friends.
kjoe
7/17/2007 12:13 PM
Well, Kjoe. I did not make up the maxim "If IT ain't broke, don't fix IT." Therefore, if I were to change the pronoun, it would cease to be a Maxim. But, you knew that.
So you also agree that 'No Child Left Behind' is the cause of society's ills and therefore the cause of poorly performing students? Can't say as I agree with you there, either.
I do feel it necessary to inform you that society was ill long before 'No Child Left Behind.'
But, you knew that.
So why the smoke screen$
7/17/2007 2:40 PM
Trouble, you did not make up the maxim "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", but you are the only one who used it in this thread. Assuming "it" means the slps process of educating students, maybe we need a new maxom--it ain't broke, but it needs constant maintenence and improvement. If "it" maintains and improves one student at a time, perhaps that could help "fix" society.
As for "no child left behind", I said it was an abstract policy from Bush and friends. I do not have a high opinion of it, but my point was that it is policy---and slmpd is composed of actual human beings.
kjoe
7/17/2007 5:12 PM
If you really think that you can "fix" society "one student at a time," then keep on keepin' on. Good luck to you. If you think that people are going to stand still and let you take more than the 55% of tax dollars collected to fix "one student at a time" well... we need to have a talk about appropriate use of money collected first. I don't see that happening. Is that an ill of society? Maybe. Is not using funds appropriately a bigger ill?
Perhaps an analogy of a policy of teaching to the test as a destroyer of society vs. blaming the police for crime is not that great. But, you got the point. Right?
7/17/2007 8:25 PM
Two analogies which are in the ballpark if you are trying to make sense:
Blaming the slps (board members, administrators, teachers and other human beings) for poorly educated students is like blaming the slmpd for crime.
Blaming the no child left behind testing policies for poorly educated students is like blaming the Miranda rights for crime. kj
7/18/2007 1:28 AM
Ariel,
Your statement that the SLPS system is great, even if it doesn't educate children to standards is like a hospital that has a high mortality rate blaming it on the fact that they have to treat sick people instead of healthy people.
Poverty does impact education, but it is a tad ridiculous to label a school system as great if it can't educate its students.
7/18/2007 4:45 AM
1. The school district is not broken, the children are.
2. "Tinkering" with the school district does not fix the children.
3. I DID NOT SAY NCLB IS THE CAUSE OF SOCIETY'S ILLS. I said that NCLB has blinded people to dealing with society's ills by insinuating that they can be solved by tinkering with schools.
4. One single child is always worth making the effort, and I did not ask for more money to do so.
5. I AM concerned with appropriate use of taxpayer money, and this is one of the reasons I object to NCLB. I believe I have made it very clear that I believe that funding needs to be targeted to social programs that address the children's living conditions at home and in the community. I have repeatedly stated that the problems these children have go far beyond what any school district can address. In terms of school funding, I would prefer to see federal money put into social workers, nurses, counselors and security officers rather than the new "curriculums" and "consultants" NCLB pours taxpayer money into. This only enriches publishers and consulting firms and does nothing to address the REAL issues these children have that cause them to fall behind.
Mr. Schaal: Try this twist on your analogy...
...like a hospital that has a high mortality rate blaming it on the fact that they have to treat--as a majority of their patients--dying people all the other hospitals have given up on or turned away instead of healthy people.
7/18/2007 11:29 AM
Ariel states==
==3. I DID NOT SAY NCLB IS THE CAUSE OF SOCIETY'S ILLS.==
==I blame No Child Left Behind because it CREATED the blindness. It created a climate of blame instead of help, and sold the American people a bill of goods that giving school districts over to corporate interests would solve the social problems of inner cities. It has become this administration's domestic policy for poverty and social programs. "No need to invest in the homes and communities. Just blame the schools and take them over. That will solve everything."==
Ariel, I quote another wiseman... "WTF?" or are you so used to throwing around blame that you do not realize where you are throwing it?
Let me put this as succinctly as I can... IF you are a teacher and IF you are posting on the internet during classtime. Then I blame you! You are the waste of tax dollars that I speak of. Oh, and I fully believe that the lunatics are running this asylum and that teachers like Jim H who post on their own time are the exception.
7/20/2007 6:04 AM
Trouble: Here is what I assumed was a poorly worded question from you I attempted to answer:
"Why you feel that attacking 'no child left behind' is the route to the promised land of education."
This is how I answered you:
"I blame No Child Left Behind because it CREATED the blindness. It created a climate of blame instead of help, and sold the American people a bill of goods that giving school districts over to corporate interests would solve the social problems of inner cities."
Here is where YOU twisted what I said:
"And blaming 'No Child Left Behind' for creating societies ills is... well, naive."
And this I wrote to correct the misperception you created:
"3. I DID NOT SAY NCLB IS THE CAUSE OF SOCIETY'S ILLS. I said that NCLB has blinded people to dealing with society's ills by insinuating that they can be solved by tinkering with schools."
Hope that clears it all up for you. And by the way, to quote Alice Cooper, "SCHOOL'S OUT FOR THE SUMMER!".
7/20/2007 11:16 AM
I certainly realize that you are "out for the summer." You really expect me to believe that you are a teacher don't you?
(don't make me go back with my calendar and correlate your postings with classroom hours during the school year.)
I actually believed Jim H when he stated that there are controls against teachers wasting kids lives and tax dollars. The real question is, what credibility do you think that saying you are a teacher gives you?
(one real quick way to get me to shut up would be to tell the truth. I have stated previously that you do make certain points and I agree somewhat with what you are saying. But, to say it from a teachers standpoint during classtimes, for some reason incenses me.)
7/20/2007 8:22 PM
trouble: Every time you have no answer to something I say, you launch this personal attack in an effort to leave the impression that I am either a liar or an incompetent teacher who sits around surfing the internet during classtime. Both are not true, and what a small life you must have to have nothing better to do than chronicle the blogging times of teachers.
The only reason I am responding to your comment is because I don't want your attacks to discourage other teachers from talking. Ignorant as your comment is, it is a quite serious charge. Teachers are reticent enough about voicing their opinions without you adding to their fear. If people would let teachers speak and really listen to them, they would discover that we know a few things about educating children. Things that OUGHT to be taken into consideration.
I have read you going off on another teacher about this at around 8:30 am. one day because YOU consider that "classtime". You are conveniently oblivious to the fact that some schools do not start until after 9:00 am., and that some teachers' classes may not start until later than that. You do not seem to realize that there can be different starting times and ending times for schools and classes, that many teachers have varying class schedules day to day, that some teachers work at multiple schools, and that teachers are also humans and so have days off with personal or family illnesses, during which times some of them may post comments on blogs. Keep this in mind as you break out your "calendars". I AM a teacher and I have NEVER blogged during classtime. I cannot imagine how you think this would even be possible.
There are very few forums available for teachers to have a voice about education. I consider this blog to be a very important tool for reaching out to communicate with people of influence and concern with whom I would never otherwise be able to speak. In some small way, I am hopeful that something I say can contribute to the public discussion and enlightenment about the lives and education of the children to whom I have devoted my life. I have no other agenda than this.
The truth is what it is, and I am what I am. Deal with it.
There ARE things worth being incensed about on this blog, but public educators using a public forum to discuss public education is not one of them.
7/24/2007 2:31 PM
Yeah, right. Sure.
I still do not think that attacking NCLB will do anything about the problems with society.
Not that I agree with NCLB.
Still think that it is wrong to shortchange the students. That is my opinion. No amount of high word count monologues will change that.
Jim H, I don't like to keep using you as the standard. But, thanks for posting during non-working hours. I and my tax dollars appreciate that.
==I have read you going off on another teacher about this at around 8:30 am. one day because YOU consider that "classtime".==
That rant was about 'Po Righteous
Teacher.' Who, in fact, confessed that they were not a teacher and trying to use the teacher moniker for some sort of credibility.
So, there you are...
7/26/2007 3:20 PM
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