By Antonio D. French
Filed Thursday, March 22, 2007 at 5:51 PM
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18 Comments:
Why would a cop have his back to a group of protesters? Perhaps he was baiting the crowd?
3/22/2007 6:44 PM
Doug, does that really matter? The whole thing was very sad and VERY predictable. Push the highly volatile students and wait for the reaction. Where have I seen that before? The only thing that happened in that room was the emphasizing that a fix is needed and now!
3/22/2007 8:06 PM
Why isn't this post titled Student Pushes Officer. The student was very courageous to be there, to protest, to be a leader out front of those protesting, to stand up for his beliefs. From the video it appears that the committee members were calm. The officers were calm. The young man was calm yet vocal. It seems like a great peaceful and vocal demonstration. Then the young man shoves the officer. Unfortunately, it seems to have taken the focus off of the true story, the purpose of the demonstration. Now it is another story about a person running from law enforcement and law enforcment over reacting. Now it is a story about police macing a student rather than a brave student standing strong and proud.
3/22/2007 9:52 PM
What part of civil disobediance do these kids not understand.
Oh, I forgot, they are under the influence of people whose agenda isn't the betterment of the school--they want the status quo...
So sad.
3/22/2007 9:56 PM
CWEguy you hit the nail right on the head.
The teachers union has brainwashed and encouraged these students to start protesting....ever since the preliminary decision a couple of months ago.
It's the teachers (and their union) that put the misinformation (lies) into the heads of the students regarding not being able to get into college due to School district accreditation, etc. As well as other lies. They told the kids that so that they would get them fired up.
The Teachers, The Union, The school board... (most of them thugs) are fighting to keep the status quo of poor education, poor standards, and poor results. There is a culture in the St. Louis schools of just passing the students (the problems) onto the next grade and the next teacher so that they will be someone else's problem. There is also a culture of poor performance....among teachers and students.
That's why they got rid of Superintended Williams.... Williams was slowly trying to make fundamental changes. And when it got critical....when he started to examine teachers and what they were doing... then all of a sudden he had to go.
I no longer live in the city (and luckily didn't go to city schools.... although Wellston was just as bad)... I do have family who went to city schools. I am glad that the State made this move. It was long overdue. The thugs and incompetents on the school board (and many of the administrators) have been driving that district into the ground.... I still remember the fiasco surrounding the consultant group they brought in a few years ago. That group uncovered all kinds of corruption and mismanagement by the school board, the administrators and some of the teachers. It opened my eyes to what was going on there. That consultant group (which had a track record of turning big school districts around) was not even able to get SLPS back on track. The problems were so deep, that they only managed to shed light on the problems. They were just not able to change the culture of poor performance, low expectations, poor management, lack of innovation, weak discipline, etc.
The SLPS needs a complete overhaul. I hope the 3 member State panel consults with experts and puts together a consortium of Veteran/Master teachers from the area....who can guide and direct them to some kind of fundamental change. This process will take years.... It took decades for it to get this bad... so it will take a long time to get it back to something decent.
But it's not just the school board... that's just one piece of the puzzle. The school system is perhaps 1/2 or 2/3 of the problem. The other big chunk of the problem has to do with the parents and families of these children. Many of the parents don't have control of their children, and are not involved in their childrens educations (and some don't really want to be bothered with it). THAT is something that the school system won't be able to control... it can help... but the responsibility for parents getting involved in the lives of their children ultimately rests with the parents.
Although some sort of State law to compel parents to monitor their childs educations, make sure the child is in school, and to compel them to attend school meetings & events might not be a bad idea.
3/23/2007 1:34 AM
angry independent, you are a pretty smart guy.
Time will tell whether the students have been brainwashed more than you.
Thanks for clearing things up about Williams---I had this naive idea that his support of and close friendship with the financially creative Floyd Irons had something to do with his leaving.
Since you know a little about law enforcement---any clues about why Tim Bacon had 12 bullets pumped into him just before he was going to file the lawsuit? Any idea why the news media had no interest in following the case up and demanding some answers?
3/23/2007 1:48 AM
angry independent:
I would think that if the teachers had as much power and influence over the students of SLPS as you suggest, there should be no problem getting them educated.
The reality is that urban children are independent, passionate, creative people who are deeply distrustful of all forms of authority. Teachers can work to earn their trust often only by proving they will not abandon or abuse them no matter HOW rebellious or insulting they are. Welcome to my world.
No one needed to "brainwash" these children. (Would that it were that easy to put things in their heads). What you see here is that the urban children of America are finding their voice. Imperfectly now, but I expect it will only grow stronger and wiser with time.
As for Roberti, I believe you are mistaken. I am fairly sure that Alvarez and Marsel had never intervened in a school district before. St. Louis BECAME their resume for school reform intervention. You may be the only person left in St. Louis who seems to think Roberti did a good job. There was much more harm in what he did here than you seem to realize, but I believe another teacher has written the book about that.
Williams was not "examining teachers" in the district. His efforts to reorganize the district were unresearched grandstanding for which he neglected to plan financing. He shuffled the district like cards and could not figure out how to bring it back down. But then, that was what he was supposed to do. How can you not see that there has been a concerted effort in progress to destroy the school district for the last several years?
As for your teacher bashing, I am capable of accepting abuse from you long enough to try to teach you something too.
3/23/2007 8:55 AM
The SLPS needs a complete overhaul. I hope the 3 member State panel consults with experts and puts together a consortium of Veteran/Master teachers from the area....who can guide and direct them to some kind of fundamental change. This process will take years.... It took decades for it to get this bad... so it will take a long time to get it back to something decent.
3/23/2007 9:07 AM
Angry Independent
The SLPS needs a complete overhaul. Agree
I hope the 3 member State panel consults with experts and puts together a consortium of Veteran/Master teachers from the area....who can guide and direct them to some kind of fundamental change. This process will take years.... It took decades for it to get this bad... so it will take a long time to get it back to something decent.
My question to you is what is an expert? Seems to me you have no idea about Urban Education as this guy who swings a hammer for a living.
This whole exercise is about power, politics and money. Slay has had this plan to change the financial status of the city. Take a look at the developments going up around St. Louis. Many of the families who attend the SLPS cannot afford to live here. Their homes are being taken away from them in order to put up a $300,000 house or some other sort of development by McBride & Son. If anything gets in the way of Slay (or the Slay family) he will change the rules of the game in order for him to get his way. Haven’t we seen this kind of behavior on a school playground? Now take a look at recent elections. People have been taking notice as to what has been happening in the City. Begin with Peter Downs and Donna Jones getting on the school board after the Slay/Schoemehl experiment. Most recent is Louis Reed ousting Shrewsberry. Slay doesn’t care about the children of St. Louis. Wait, let me restate that. Slay only cares about the wealthy students of St. Louis. But if the trend continues in future elections as with the most recent ones Slay will be looking for another job. I find it amazing that the candidates who ran grass roots campaigns with very little or no money behind them have been winning. If Slay wants to be like Chicago then do something about public transportation.
One last thing. This district has thirty years (if not longer) of misappropriation of money, lack of teacher and student accountability, and in fighting among board members. We cannot expect microwavable results in order to change attitudes and replace money that have been stolen by its employees.
3/23/2007 9:09 AM
This comment has been removed by the author.
3/23/2007 10:11 AM
The student deserved some kind of disipline but didn't deserve to be maced. He shouldn't been in the cops faces but in D. Kent King's face.
Somehow through this all I am trying to remember that everything in life is temporary.
3/23/2007 10:50 AM
Anger is a horrid thing, and it has been proven time and again that misdirected anger can be worse.
Now I have no real knowledge of the incidents that led to this unfortunate encounter, or of the politics involved behind the board’s decision. I cannot speak to the long or short term implications of their decision, nor of the struggle and attitudes that led to what has turned into a multi-faceted struggle for control and assertion.
What I can comment on is exactly what happened to young "Shane" and the reasons behind it.
The roiling emotions of the crowd were severely misplaced, and in truth, had no place in the council chambers. The situation, as untenable as it might seem, had progressed beyond the point where such protests would have been effective, and all that was left to do was determine a final outcome. In this video and several others that have cropped up on the net you can see the young man in question deliberately elbowing a police officer. This alone is grounds enough to arrest the youth, and for most that watch it might seem to be the cause of the macing. Unfortunately, this is not the case.
Officers did, in fact secure the lad, and were attempting to remove him, and him alone, from chambers, thus hoping to diffuse the situation and give those remaining the chance to calm themselves. An officer gained purchase on the subject’s arm, while another, a slight female officer, attempted to gain a purchase on the subjects other arm and jacket. Here is where things went from bad to worse.
For reasons known only to himself, the teen, who, incidentally outweighed both officers by a significant amount, wrenched his arm free from the second officer and sent her stumbling back, where she fell and caught the abutted edge of a stone table/bench across her neck. While she struggled to rise again, the youth tore free from the original officer and sought to escape custody by bolting through the building and dashing outside.
It was at this point that officers captured the fleeing youth, and employed Mace to subdue him, desperately seeking an end to what was quickly growing into a physical and emotionally charged confrontation.
In the swirling mass of confusion and amidst the crushing press of other students seeking to help their friend, there were a few incidents of overspray and unfortunately, a few of these bystanders received a share of the chemical deterrent, but the police involved could hardly be blamed for such an unfortunate circumstance.
In other videos we see the tearstained countenance of a young girl sobbing "Shane didn't do nothin to nobody", and are given ample reactions from both students and adults that were present, but none of these bits of footage were able to capture the true cause of the macing, that of the youth throwing an attending officer to the ground and causing her to strike the bench. Everything seems hinged on that single shove, and, had that been the case, I, too would be siding with those berating the officers for overreacting, but as it was, with actual bodily harm and the threat of real damage from his actions, the police had little, if in fact any other recourse.
I commend both their actions and their restraint in this matter and urge those involved to pay heed to what has occurred. I only hope that the matter at the core of the conflict, the difficulties with the schools and what must be done to correct them, is not lost amid the wash of anger and outrage.
3/23/2007 4:23 PM
duckworth,senator and any other's out there who feel the same, the action by the student was a criminal act. It's called assault on a law enforcement officer. The senior officer was not baiting the crowd, he was gathering information to act on. There were other officers present and they were awaiting orders from a senior officer. The act of agression by the student was uncalled for. Yes, he had the right to protest under the first amendment right of freedom of speech. The student violated the law by pushing the officer and not following the lawful commands of the officer by running away.
He commited a second assault on an officer that tried to stop him in the hallway by knocking the officer to the ground. Once outside, the officers converged on him. The student failed to follow orders and fought with officers outside of the building. That is called resisting arrest, another crime.
Police Officers are not around to be struck, spit on or knocked around. Police Officers are not paid to get hurt on the job. Unfortunatly, it happens too often. Police Officers in all settings and jurisdictions deal with protesters. They were given a chance to peacefully protest, and the student crossed the line.
The student was maced and taken into custody where he was treated for the reaction of the mace. The mace convinced the student to obey the lawful orders that were given to him. Had he obeyed when directed to after initially violating the law he would not have been maced.
The officers did there job. They got compliance with as little force as was necessary. Emotions were high in the meeting, but that was no reason for the student to cross the line.
Show some respect for the men and women in blue. DD, it seems that you need to do some growing up and gain some life experience. I suggest that you go on a ride along with a Police Officer so you can walk in their shoes and see what they deal with day in and day out. It's not all sitting in the donut shop drinking coffee.
3/23/2007 4:35 PM
Angry independent said: "That consultant group (which had a track record of turning big school districts around) was not even able to get SLPS back on track." That consultant group did not have a track record. The SLPS was its first opportunity. They have ruined not only the SLPs, but the New Orleans public schools, and are the objects of anger on the part of parents in New York City.
As for the student involved in the altercation, those students had no right in the setting to act as they did, and whoever was responsible for bringing them and not supervising or controlling them has caused serious problems and a backlash against the SLPS.
That was a business meeting, and all of us in the audience (including me and my sister) should know that respect and decorum should be applied.
Any disruption of a legal meeting is a disruption for all who attend, not just for the participants in the legal business.
Some in St. Louis need to learn to put their best foot forward and best behavior. This is counterproductive and hurts the perceptions of those who attempt to address the issues in a reasonable manner.
I am for public education, but I cannot approve of some of the methods being employed by some because they hurt any positive, rational, and reasonable efforts of several, if not many, who truly care.
Nevertheless, what transpired in Jefferson City is a travesty against justice and public service.
3/23/2007 8:30 PM
Reality said:
"Police Officers are not around to be struck, spit on or knocked around. Police Officers are not paid to get hurt on the job. Unfortunatly, it happens too often...the student crossed the line..."
DITTO FOR TEACHERS. WE ARE PUBLIC SERVANTS TOO.
Reality also said:
"The mace convinced the student to obey the lawful orders that were given to him."
SLPS TEACHERS DO IT WITHOUT MACE EVERY DAY.
It is significantly more difficult than most seem to realize to educate urban children. I suggest that "walking in the shoes" of a SLPS teacher, as you suggest doing for police officers, may be a good start.
I AGREE WITH YOU that laws were broken by the student. Consequences apply, that's life. However, I must point out that the actions of the state of Missouri in regard to SLPS accreditation and takeover have ALSO been against the law. Disenfranchising the voters of St. Louis is against the entire spirit of democracy. Changing the rules (laws) governing accreditation standards and timelines is also a legal issue. According to the law, law enforcement is not allowed to change and invent laws to achieve the goal of convicting someone without due process of law. LAW cuts both ways in this issue.
The one thing that is sure to be an outcome of the actions of the state of Missouri is that it will become even MORE difficult to TEACH SLPS students the citizenship values to respect and obey legal authority. The children are young and passionate and tend to lump "authority" into a mass.
3/24/2007 6:16 PM
I was on another forum, defending the preciseness of Dr. Bourisaw, and i was gashed pretty hard, because of this quote by Giegerich in Friday's paper. It was hard to defend her for this----did I miss anything about it---was it spun in any way?
St. Louis Superintendent Diana Bourisaw criticized police, and linked the scuffle to the state board and intervention.
"The altercation was just another example of the disregard for children that we've seen," she said.
3/25/2007 5:00 PM
from southern hose to midwestern mace
its all the same
3/25/2007 10:46 PM
What a slap in the face to all of those very brave civil rights activists!!!!!
WRONG!!!!!
3/26/2007 6:29 AM
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