By Antonio D. French
Filed Thursday, August 17, 2006 at 1:12 AM
Meeting tonight at the Tandy Center in north St. Louis, members of the St. Louis Police Board again heard from civilian employees of the department who want to be allowed to move out of the City of St. Louis. Board members also heard tonight from citizens who want all police employees to live where they work.
Jamilah Nasheed, who as a new State Rep will soon be representing the north St. Louis neighborhood where the meeting was held, spoke against lifting the residency requirement.
"I'm against any city resident that's on the city payroll to be living outside of the city," said Nasheed.
And in his first interview with PUB DEF, Mayor Francis Slay said he hopes the police board, which as mayor he is a member of, waits to decide on this issue until after city voters are again allowed to let their feelings be known through a non-binding referendum which will appear on the November ballot.
"Frankly, tonight there was a total of 13 people that testified. We have 350,000 residents in the City of St. Louis. I'm sure there's a lot more than 13 in this neighborhood alone that have an opinion on this issue," said Slay.
27 Comments:
Vote no to the residency requirement. Required residency of City of St. Louis employees has not been shown to lead to a better City of St. Louis. In fact, the City of St. Louis has been undergoing a renaissance, but not because of the City of St. Louis residency requirement. The influx of huge sums of money into targeted communities for development has improved some communities, not the residency rule.
Most employees of the City of St. Louis can barely afford to own a home in the City of St. Louis. City employees can't afford to purchase any of these new homes or condominiums that are being built in the City of St. Louis. City employees don't get regular raises and have not for years, not to mention the raises are not of livable means.
We would have a better choice of affordable housing options if the residency requirements were lifted. Most City employees do vote, and this is why these politicians want us to live in the City of St. Louis.
The politicians need to get off our backs when they don't do anything to keep us here, except keep our wages at poverty levels or below!
We are tired of these politicians trying to keep the residency rule in effect, the politicians can stay in this dump they have created don't force us too stay here with you!!!!!!!!!!
8/17/2006 7:35 AM
I think that it even goes deeper than just being able to afford to live where you want to live and to have a freedom of choice in deciding where to raise a family.
I think that the City of St. Louis has failed to fulfill their promise of providing a decent education for all children of the City of St. Louis. They have not only failed the children but have forced the families of these children to pay out thousands of dollars to send them to private schools both in the City and in the County. There are many police officers families that are not eligible for the desegregation program and are stuck paying for private schools. This is not fair.
They have also failed in providing an adequate pay for their employees. This is especially evident because of the money that is needed to provide for a quality education.
The City of St. Louis should either fix the schools, which they have been extremely unsuccessful in doing, or allow citizens to live where they want to live and pay their employees the going rate of other cities of equal size and population. I know that the Police Department is one of the most underpaid departments in the Metro St. Louis area. That for a Department that is challenged with things that other departments don’t face that require specialized training and people with special skill sets.
I would like to know how many people who oppose the residency requirement have the option to send their children to a county school, of their choice. I would like to know how elected officials send their children to county schools. If the City is such a great place to live and raise your family why don’t you send your children to St. Louis Public Schools?
And your answer to just quit is an idiotic answer that doesn't even justify an answer but I will give you one. Most of the people have grown up in the City and have families in the City and have a vested interest in the City. They are doing their best to improve the City. All we want is to provide the best for our families.
I got an idea for you. If you don't like the rules the Police Department makes regarding residency QUIT CALLING THE POLICE.
8/17/2006 8:33 AM
If you don't want to live here, don't work for a City-funded employer, plain and simple. But if you are foolish enough to leave yet still work for the Police, well then, thanks for your continued earnings taxes and selling your appreciated home to even more taxpayers.
8/17/2006 9:18 AM
Saying there is not affordable housing in St. Louis City is a joke.
In Gravois Park, there are homes selling for 70K and lower, 3 bedroom 2 bathroom, and in good condition. Gravois Park Neighborhood Association are looking for responsible homeowners to fill these available properties. How can someone not afford 70K, especially when there are also 5k home improvement forgivable loans? 70K would be about 400-420/month for the mortgage. That is lower than my 1BR rent in Slay's 23rd Ward. If necessary, give them a raise, but they cannot expect to afford a brand new downtown loft, or a 350k home in Tower Grove.
The bottom line is that if you are receiving your salary from City Taxpayers, then you must live here, in the Limits, thereby spending your money in the Limits. If you lived in the County, then probably a good amount of your money would support County businesses, which means City Taxpayers are indirectly funding non-City economic activity. How is this a good policy?
Slay talks about the November Vote as if that will actually influence the decision. With voter turnout so low, I doubt they will take that vote into huge consideration. The residency vote will probably be pretty close anyway. How can 13 percent be extrapolated to represent the entire 350k population?
It can't.
Our leaders need to voice their stance, instead of "waiting for the public" to give their opinion. The fact is that the public is not engaged in these issues.
8/17/2006 9:53 AM
In the 2002 Election 95,103 people voted for the US Senate Seat, which is about 27.0% of the City Population. We can expect the same turnout with the McCaskill - Talent ballot.
City Charter Amendments
Charter Amendment Q:
75,075 21.5%
Charter Amendment O:
73,691 21.0%
Charter Amendment N:
75,303 22.0%
So we can expect around 21.5% voter turnout, which is a little less than 1/4 of the population.
This < 1/4 will probably be split as well.
8/17/2006 10:15 AM
Doug,
A large % of the city's 350,000 residents are under 18 and not eligible to vote. A chunk of those over 18 are not registered.
If I recall correctly we have about 200,000 registered voters. Some of those are probably folks who have moved or died but are still on the rolls.
So 100,000 voters in November would be closer to 50% voter turnout. We very rarely see over 100,000 votes cast in the city for anything other than a presidential election.
8/17/2006 11:13 AM
There is one very good reason to drop the residency requirement.
It increases the labor pool.
There are residents of the county who would be happy to work for the city (and feel some desire to be part of the revival). However, they are not willing to move into the city's school district.
Personally, I think it might be a good idea to drop the requirement and allow a larger talent pool compete for the jobs.
8/17/2006 11:43 AM
Doug Duckworth (Ducky) you have lost your mind. If you earn less than $20,000 a year, after taxes you can barely afford
$400-450 a month rent when you add in the utilities and upkeep. I'm glad you make so much money Ducky, that you can afford to live in the 23rd Ward. Everyone can't bragg about all the money that they earn and then make judgements about what others should be able to afford.
If you make so much money Ducky, why don't you start sharing your extra money with City employees and police officers, we could use it. Don't tell us what we can afford Ducky, and we won't tell you where you can go!!!!!!!!!!!!
8/17/2006 11:51 AM
I understand the argument that the St. Louis public schools are in many respects substandard and that, therefore, employees of the police department do not want to send their children there.
What I do not understand is the argument about affordable housing. Where in the county is real estate so much more affordable than in comparable St. Louis city neighborhoods?
As residency requirements are removed and employees move out to St. Charles or Jefferson Counties, the next plea will be for a salary increase. With current gas prices (which are not likely to go down) that commute from far north, west or south county becomes very expensive.
8/17/2006 12:04 PM
If you have lived in the city for over seven years, the new requirement for police, you likely bought a southwest city home for only around a then-bargain price of $100,000 soon after starting your job. But hey, if you want to trade in your low mortgage payment and safe neighborhood for a longer drive and more expensive house, go ahead and live in debt, while still paying earnings tax. I guess if that's your choice, you maybe already ran up your city mortgage with home equity loans, so no wonder why you need to now cash in your appreciation.
8/17/2006 12:07 PM
If you earn less than $20,000 a year, after taxes you can barely afford $400-450 a month rent when you add in the utilities and upkeep.
Yeah, but how many City employees make less than $20,000?
8/17/2006 12:14 PM
Here are some salary listings from the current job openings:
Administrative Assistant III (City Courts)
Annual Salary Range
Minimum Maximum
$43,862.00 $65,858.00
Fleet Maintenance Technician II
Annual Salary Range
Minimum Maximum
$31,694.00 $44,148.00
Water Utility Worker
Annual Salary Range
Minimum Maximum
$25,220.00 $37,856.00
Truck Tire Service Worker
Annual Salary Range
Minimum Maximum
$23,140.00 $34,710.00
Custodian (Lead)
Annual Salary Range
Minimum Maximum
$22,516.00 $29,224.00
Paramedic
Annual Salary Range
Minimum Maximum
$34,840.00 $52,286.00
Public Health Nurse I
Annual Salary Range
Minimum Maximum
$38,168.00 $57,252.00
Air Pollution Engineer I
Annual Salary Range
Minimum Maximum
$38,168.00 $57,252.00
What positions would be less than 20k?
A janitor pays at least 22k, with the maximum pay around 30k.
Here is a rough budget:
4800 Mortgage
1200 Gas
720 Phone
980 Electric
2400 Food
3600 Repairs
1800 Insurance
2400 Car Payment
(+Forgivable Loans)
(+ possible Missouri Historical Tax Credit which pays up to 25% cost of redevelopment or renovation of Historical Homes)
17,900 Total
Lets say that is if you live alone. Add another income, and it seems not bad, now if you have children the costs become a problem. Yet it is possible to live in St. Louis as a City employee. If you make a low salary, then your lifestyle is not going to be extravagant, but I fail to see how living in the County will make a big difference. St. Louis County has crime problems, isn't a huge bargain, and has problems with some schools as well. If you make 22k will you be living in Clayton, West County, or Richmond Heights? Will you be able to afford to live in areas which have better schools?
The argument that more candiates will be able to enter the job pool. I don't support this, because again, the person will be earning salary from City Taxpayers and probably not spending most of their money in the City. Also they will not be paying property taxes in St. Louis, which is needed since the low amount of property tax is why we have the earnings tax.
If you work for a given political structure, you should live in their jurisdiction. You are being paid by their citizens, therefore you should live where their citizens live. You should be a stakeholder in the success of the community. This, along with regular raises, is an incentive for success.
If you don't like your given salary, then get a Pell Grant, or loan, and go back to Forest Park Community College. Go part time, or during the night. This is possible, even for people with kids, as I know several middle aged parents who are doing this. They are bar tending, while raising their children and attending school. Do well there and get transfer scholarship to another university. Once you have more training, apply for a promotion.
Why should this requirement be lifted? There is no reason to exempt employees from the requirement.
8/17/2006 1:09 PM
CITY EMPLOYEE HERE: $18,000 BEFORE TAXES.
8/17/2006 1:59 PM
What City employee makes under $20,000? A school-crossing guard? A part-timer? An intern?
8/17/2006 2:27 PM
To Anon #2, please know the Mayor has no control over either the City Schools nor the Police Department. They are "city" in name only. So plese do not lay that are the feet of any mayor, slay or otherwise.
8/17/2006 3:16 PM
If all the involved, caring, committed parents who happen to be required to live in the City would send their kids to the public schools, they would get better. The desertion of the public schools by the parents with the influence, education and determination to demand good education for their kids is a huge reason we have the mess we have. Frankly, if they don't want to live in the City I say let them go. If we abolished the requirement we'd get a pool of applicants that might actually include some who would do a good job. Competition is a good thing, and knowing someone else could replace you keeps workers on their toys.
8/17/2006 9:56 PM
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8/17/2006 11:57 PM
Doug,
The current job postings for the City are either 1) Skilled or proffessional Jobs or 2) openings for people who are ALREADY employed by the City; they are not representative of all or most city workers. $22,000 is not the lowest possible salary for a custodian in the city.
Jimmy Lappe
8/18/2006 9:16 AM
The only reason this residency conversation is taking place is because the City is forced by state law to pay for but not have any control over the budget and policies of a state police department in lieu of local police department. In fact, every municipal elected and appointed official here is required by state law to support the Police Board. The penalty for failing to do so is removal from office/termination. Residency, a review board, these are small matters compared to the grand prize, local control of the department and accountability to taxpayers. Residency would not be up for debate if the City controlled the department.
City Ordinance 66272 describing the City's civil service pay scale for 2005-06 is available online. The low-end pay jobs are
5G, $631-$949 bi-weekly: Clerical Aide, Lifeguard, Messenger/Mail Clerk, School Crossing Guard, Program Worker
6G, $687-$1031 bi-weekly: Custodian, Parking Garage Attendant
7G, $750-$1124 bi-weekly: Custodian Lead, Dental Assistant, Lifeguard Supervisor, Recreation Assistant,
8G, $817-1225 bi-weekly: Clerk I, Clerk Typist I, Data Entry Operator, Inventory Control Specialist, Inventory Control Technician I, Laboratory Aide, Laborer, Parking Garage Attendant Lead, Receptionist
9G, $890-1335 bi-weekly: Airport Traffic Officer, Assistant Mechanical Maintenance Worker, Building Records Clerk, Cashier, Clerk Typist II, Inventory Control Technician II, Lead Program Aide, Paving Machine Assistant, Pest Control Worker, Real Estate Records Clerk I, Receptionist to Mayor, Secretary I, Traffic Data Clerk, Truck Tire Service Worker, Utility Worker
10G, $970-$1456 bi-weekly: Account Clerk I, Airport Community Programs Assistant, Animal Control Officer I, Benefits Clerk, Building Maintenance Worker, Clerk Typist III, Community Health Aide, Community Program Aide, Computer Operator I, Court Officer, Customer Service Representative I, Deputy Marshal, Drafter I, Gardener, Grants Specialist, Heavy Equipment Operator I, Inventory Coordinator, Lead Abatement Worker, Park Attendant, Park Ranger, Payroll Specialist I, Program Aide, Public Nuisance Inspector, Real Estate Records Clerk II, Recreation Leader, Secretary II, Security Officer, Telecommunicator, Tow Truck Operator, Tree Trimmer, Utility Worker Lead, Water Billing Clerk, Water Meter Repair Worker, Water Meter Worker, Water Utility Worker, Zoning Inspector
In some cases, guaranteed insurance and not salary is the attractive feature to employment with the City.
8/18/2006 11:45 AM
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8/18/2006 12:57 PM
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8/18/2006 12:59 PM
631 bi-weekly ends up being 15,144 per year before taxes.
Earnings tax payment is: 151.44 (1%)
Income Taxes, which are 15% for single fliers who make $7,151 - $29,050 annually, is: 2271.60
State Income Tax is: 684.00 (dor.mo.gov/tax/calculators/incometax)
15144.00
151.44
2271.60
- 684.00
__________
12037.56 after taxes
Let's look at my budget!
4800 Mortgage
1200 Gas
720 Phone
980 Electric
2400 Food
3600 Repairs
1800 Insurance
2400 Car Payment
Alright, get rid of the car, and take Metro. 666.00 per year based upon 55 per month.
That brings the budget to:
4800 Mortgage
1200 Gas
720 Phone
980 Electric
2400 Food
3600 Repairs
660 Metro
14,360.00 total and 12,037.56 after taxes.
Possible solutions: work another job, get forgivable loans from the city thus reducing the amount of monthly payments for repairs, eat cheaper foods, use less electricity or gas, or rent the 3BR home, and stay in an apartment.
I did not calculate property taxes because I could not find resources for those.
In my opinion, it is possible to live in the City even at these lower incomes. Simply budget your money, work another job, consume less resources, or go back to college and get more training, thus a better job. Personal responsibility is key.
8/18/2006 1:00 PM
I have to ask, why does the city need Dental Assistants?
8/18/2006 1:08 PM
Considering that the City Revised Code retains regulation of Mellorine and a prohibition on the sale of any sex-inciting device or contrivance, it is not hard to believe that a position no longer filled is retained in the employment classification system.
It is also possible that the dental assistant job has something to do with grant money, perhaps related to homeless or immigrant services, perhaps related to a nonprofit partner.
8/18/2006 2:32 PM
To Doug's central point, there is no where in the county that is cheaper to live than in the City. And, if there were such a place, I wouldn't want to live there. So the argument that it is cheaper to live in the county is a flawed one.
The school argument, however, still stands, which is why the school board elections early next year will be so important.
8/18/2006 8:04 PM
Slay needs to go be a judge like he wants and get away from the city. Make him a judge in Jeff. County
8/20/2006 1:42 PM
Hey....don't send him to us, Jeff county doesn't want him!! There is no place for someone like Slay who feels that he has to "run" everything down here.
9/19/2006 3:30 PM
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